Wow so you;re lumping quoes together now without even differentiating which quote belongs to whom???? Nice. Good try though Nick.


I am pro-choice I'm just anti-bullsh*t and I call it when I see it. If you type something offensive whether its a broad generalization against women, people of color, or any other group I will respond and call you on it. I'm not popular on here because people have typed things like bashing all religion and religious people, saying its *ok* to call someone retarded in the US because its socially acceptable and homosexuals dont mind prochoicers using them to poke fun at conservatives.

If I said all parents or most parents mutilate their children that was not what I meant, I meant that most do NOT do so. Though most child abusers are the parents of the child being abused, most children about 60 million of the over 73 million in this country are not abused at all. But in population, millions is substantial on numbers alone regardless of its relation to the actual percentage of the population it represents. Its easy to misconstrue that as meaning most children are not in happy or healthy homes in terms of abuse.

But so long as people think, as you do that bearing a child means giving up on a woman's or young girl's life and dreams there is no reason to treat mothers as equals in the workforce considering its beleived they hae given up on their ability to be successful by using their wombs to reproduce. Discrimination no one with XY chromosomes would ever have to worry about, including you but that you pushed here in this forum.

You are making no sense. If you are protesting my not responding to your every word, then consider this: I gave your post the amount of attention it deserved.



That's interesting, but that doesn't explain why you are here.



Horrible atrocities have been committed in the name of religion. It doesn't deserve any defending.



Surprisingly, another lie. I don't know how I can make myself any clear. This is NOT a debate on child rearing. This is a debate on unintentional pregnancy. Dont' EVER misrepresent me or my arguments.

[quote="Nick157"]

You are making no sense. If you are protesting my not responding to your every word, then consider this: I gave your post the amount of attention it deserved.



So WHERE in here is there notation of which quote is mine and which is that of another poster?


[quote="Nick157"]

Horrible atrocities have been committed in the name of religion. It doesn't deserve any defending.



So you think a woman needs daycare WHILE pregnant? When you cited reasons why it was a train wreck you made your case based on the socioeconomic hardships a single mom could encounter if she had given birth. I counter there is no car wreck when she can have an abortion and problem is forever solved. If need be I will come back and quote that as well. If anything you've misreprsented yourself.

Oh, my sincerest apologies. A quote from another health website that I was cruising was copied to the clip board and posted here.



You specifically stated that I though all children are life-ruining experiences, which is clearly not true. That is misrepresentation.

Thank you for the apology and it is accepted.


I said I couldn't view children and babies as life ruining experiences. All of your reasons why an unplanned pregnancy would ruin a young woman's life is because of the costs and hinderance associated with parenting which means the child. You can end a pregnancy and not deserve lethal injection, you kill a child in the right state and you may just be facing that fatal cocktail.

You can't put a fetus in daycare, you can go to Harvard while pregnant, you can work while pregnant (unless the dr says you cant which again would give medical reasons for termination/abortion because the pregnancy has to be seriously affecting your health) you can do a LOT while pregnant and this is coming from a woman who had a very high risk pregnancy and severe nausea herself so many more women were able to do a hell of a lot more. I've said countless times that the solution to an unwanted prenancy one may consider a threat to their social and economic/financial lives is an abortion. However continuing that pregnancy giving birth and then NOT giving up that newborn for adoption and STILL calling it a car crash makes very littl sense to me and says a lot more about the decision aking ability of the woman who chose to do that than the experience of actally being a parent. If you "made a mistake" when you gve birth and decided to be a parent blame yourself for your mistake not parenthood itself. That was my point.

An unwanted pregnancy on its own is not a car crash because its curable in the sense an abortion will end that circumstance. ut if you go into saying children and parenthood is the hinderance and thus the car crash well you're talking about human beings and reproductive status. The two are inseparable.

So you are telling me that all unwanted pregnancies cannot become life ruining experiences?



If a woman can live her life as successful or more successful after birthing an unwanted child, then that is not a car crash. However these women are certainly a minority.



The car crash analogy is not flawless, and I never claimed it was. My main point is that it would be foolish to assume that an unexpected child will not have a negative or relatively negative impact on a number of women's lives.

[quote="Nick157"]

No, I'm saying that an unwanted pregnancy can end in abortion if the woman pregnant so chooses. If she doesn't the pregnancy/born child isn't the fault of "ruining her life" the decision not to end it/give it up for adoption obviously did. I say this to validate every single mother out there who is doing an EXCELLENT job at raising her child(ren), when we say that its impossible or highly unlikely its an affront to most single moms because if something is highly unlikely it *usually* doesn't happen. You can't say that and then say that most are doing alright. If its unwanted and you dont plan to give up your baby it makes no sense to blame the child for 1) being conceived 2) YOU continuiing the pregnancy and 3) YOU deciding not to give him/her up for adoption as newborn babies when you had the opportunity and the legal right to do so. That child's life and existence didn't ruin her life, her own decisions after conception did. Its like (and we'll use your analogy here) getitng into a car crash and you are 50% responsible for (intially find out you're pregnant when you don't want to be) and not taking the option to have this accident removed from your record permanently and having no further damage done to you by going to the hospital (getting an abortion, though in real life you cant just have an accident removed from your record legally so one up on unwanted pregnancy) yet refusing to do so. To pour salt on the proverbial wound you further go on to take total liability for the accident (not giving the baby up for adoption and removing yourself form being responsible for this unwanted child) and then complaining about how all of that ruined your life and blaming it all on a car accident (child) that was 1)minor (could have been aborted) and 2)not totally your fault (has a father, especially if he didnt want to be a father either having a baby wanted by neither and still NOT giving him/her up for adoption is even worse makes NO incredibly sense or if he DOES want the child and you DONT keeping the baby and struggling because you're a glutton for self proclaimed punishment) but you voluntarily took the blame even though you did not have to. See how that doesn't make sense?


When the right to an abortion is taken away THEN that can be a very real analogy. Some women are not cut from maternal cloth, being a woman doesn't mean having maternal instincts it means you have the ability to be a mom IF all of your womanly parts are fully functioning. Some will abuse an unwanted /resented child, some can't do it alone but are in a position as a single woman to have to do it alone, some are not mentally healthy enough to do it, some are not physically healthy enough to do it, some have no or very little aspect /potential of ever truly being successful or financially/economically responsible for themselves let alone another very dependant human being. But as a woman she has the right and the power to prevent herself from becoming a parent regardless of what anyone else wants/says and as an ADULT , equal in maturity and decision-making capabilites to a man, she also has the power to take responsibilities for her choices, whether she regrets them or not without blaming the situation for her circumstances, but her own choices afterward.





No, I believe women have the ability to do it, some simply do not try as hard as others because its been instilled in her to believe that she does not possess the same ability of a single father to overcome the obstacles involved in unplanned parenthood-single or otherwise. That mentality has been the gas on the fire society uses to keep women in their *places* either as sex objects who don't reproduce without express permission and financial backing from their male (sexual) partner. If her first thought is " OMG my life is OVER" she's already given up, she hasn't thought of "I'll get an abortion" "I'll give it up for adoption" or "I'll hvae to look into ways to make being a parent of an unplanned child work for me" and actually start working on that. The three latter options are ALL equally responsible options, just saying your life is over is a cop out to the rights and responsibilites bestowed upon you as a woman with reproductive rights in America and as an adult who is capabale of making good well-thought out decisions.

As much as I'd like to believe you, unwanted pregnancies are not always this sunny. Sure, a woman could feasibly find a way to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term and care for the child. Even though I do somewhat admire the woman's desire to be selfless, she needs to be looking out for herself and her own needs before she can attend to a child's. She needs to ask herself "Is this pregnancy going to have any kind of negative impact on my life?" If the answer is yes, then it's probably a better idea to wait longer before having children, if she chooses to have children. If her mentality is "I don't want this child, but I'm going to carry it to term and care for it" and "I'm doing this for the child, not for me", then neither will end up happy.

I dont see the sunshine in my prior post. Parenthood is hard because it involves a level of selflessness to take care of someone who is dependant upon you no mater how old or young they are. Not preparing your body for pregnancy can make all the difference between everything going smoothly and a trip to the ER. For some women there is a need NOT to have an abortion because she views her fetus as her baby no question and its no one's place to belittle or demean tat belie. However many women have given their babies up for adoption, many have aborted them and still more raise them. It's all up to her. The easy cure to an unwanted pregnancy is abortion, it totally ends being pregnant, the cure to not anting to be a parent is abortion or adoption. Not wanting to be a parent and then forcing yourself to be one by not giving the child up for adotion or having an abortion is senseless. None of the situations are simple but the solutions aren't nearly as complex as the situations involved. The only cure to not getting pregnant (pre conception) is abstinence or complete sterilization. But the cures for being pregnant and impending parenthood are plentiful and sometimes elaborate (open adoption).