Phillyblunt,

Yes a herniated disc can cause that much pain and at the L5/S1 it can cause bladder issues as well.

It sounds like you have some serious nerve impingement going on, pressure on the nerves and that is causing the pain that you are having as well as the leg weakness and getting worse by the day. If disc material is leaking out then that will irritate the nerves and make the pain even worse.

I am very concerned about your loss of bladder control. That is a very serious complication of the nerve compression at the L5/S1.
It is called cauda equina syndrome and is considered an emergency surgical need. If the compression on the nerves is not relieved right away, permanent nerve damage can result and you will not regain the nerve control that is requited to control your bladder and or you bowels.

If you already have some loss of bladder control, it will only get worse and you run the risk of always having the problem and not being able to reverse the loss of bladder control and it could become a total loss of bladder control.

Your mother, being that she is a nurse, should be fully aware of the seriousness of spinal issues, spinal pain and the pain from a herniated disc.

Is she aware that you have lost some bladder control? If not you should tell her because, as I said, that is a very serious complication of you spinal issues.

Since your appt isn't until the 16th, which is far too long to wait, now that you have lost some bladder control issues, I would suggest that you go to the emergency room right now. Tell them about the situation and the pain you are in, including the loss of bladder control and tell them who the neurosurgeon is that you have an appt with and your where advised to seek ER help right away because of the loss of bladder control and that is considered and Emergency that needs immediate attention and surgery.

You can google cauda equina syndrome and find out more info.

Good luck and please go to the ER right away, and tell your mother that you are going and why.

Keep us updated on what is going on and good luck

Fran

Well, when I tried to tell her that I need to go to the emergency room, she refused to give me the insurance cards and screamed in my face that I would have to wait until I see the neurosurgeon on Thursday.

I'm sorry you are having so much difficulty making your mother understand the seriousness of your sitiuation.

Call the neurosurgeon's office ASAP and explain the situation with the loss of bladder control. Tell them you have been advised to head to the ER right away and your mother will not give you the ins information that you need.
(I am surprised that you don't have a card of your own with your name on the ins card. Most if not all ins companies issue cards for each person that is covered under the insurance plan.)

See if they will advise you on what to do or talk to your mother. You could also call the ER and explain the situation and ask for their advise on the ins. because you do have ins coverage, that the ER will bill.

Fran

Yeah I really should. But she just says wait it out until Thursday until I see the neurosurgeon, and complains that she has no idea whats going on because she doesnt go to my doctors appointments, but listens to my complains.
I know this condition is very serious because when i try to raise my legs above 45 degrees they shake tremedoulsy, which is NOT a sign of a herniated disc, it is more a sign of nerve damage. And I had showed her this, and she says nothing, in which I reply "If this is perminant, I will NEVER forgive you."
I really dont mean to make her feel bad, but I believe there is something very very wrong with me such as cuada equina syndrome, or even worse, a tumor or MS.
Currently, I am trying to get on unemployment which is another battle because I need reassurance if I have to go into emergency surgery, I will not lose my car or anything. I mean its bad enough I lost the love of my life due to this condition.
Thanks for being there for me Fran, you make me feel secure, and I need that alot right now.

I wish I could do more for you to help you, but I don't know what else to do.

I still say call the neurosurgeon and tell him/her about the problems and maybe you should bring your mother with you to this appointment.

Have her stay in the waiting room while you meet with the doctor, exam, etc and find out the diagnosis. Be sure to tell the neurosurgeon how your mother feels and all and then ask him/her to talk to her about the diagnosis and what is going on.

That may help her to understand what is going on.

I wouldn't be concerned about a tumor or even MS. Your symptoms are classic of spinal stenosis caused by a herniated disc.

I know it is tough to have lost your girlfriend over this, and you think she is the love of your life.

But, I'm telling you this, not just as a mother, but as a person that had a similar thing happen to me at your age.

I lost what I thought was the love of my life when I was 18. I never, ever thought I would get over it either. The circumstances where different than yours, but out of my control as well as his. The love of my life was killed in Vietnam. but at the same time, it was the love of my life and it was over, my life felt over.

It took me time, what seemed like forever to get over that episode in my life and I struggled to go on for quite some time. BUT, I did go on and at 23, I met someone else and eventually found that he was the real love of my life.

That love of my life and I have been together for 34 years, married for 33 years. We have 2 grown children, and love each other as much today as the day we got married.

If someone told me that this would have happened to me when I was 18 and lost the "love of my life", I would have told them then where crazy. So I understand when you think that I am, or anyone else would be to tell you this.
But it is the honest truth.

You need to deal with your spine issues and get that taken care of, get back on your feet and be able to start living a life again. that will happen and the rest will eventually fall into place.

You never know when you will meet that special person, but it will happen and it will happen when you are least expecting it.

Good luck

Fran

Oh brother I feel your pain. I have all the same symptoms EXCEPT the loss of bladder control, which is why no doctor has even given me an MRI, let alone surgery. User PhillyBlunt was 100% correct in his respose to you, and I humbly would like to asl Philly Blunt to help me figure out what do, who to see if I suffer the same agony as our friend here but without the bladder issues. I have a long term injury to the L5 S1 area (3 years) but I was functional with Percocet. 6 days ago howeverm I re-injured that area by lifting something at a bad angle. I felt a sickening tugging, slipping, tearing feeling and have been in agony since. There is no pain in my legs. There is occasional pins and needled in my left foot, but only occasional. The pain is concentrated in the lower left of my back, near the bottom and it is very intense. Like our friend here, I walk like Frankenstein. I spent three different days in three different emergnecy rooms trying to get an MRI but all I got was morphine. Doc said he thinks it's a slipped disc perhaps pressing on a nerve and it takes about 6 weeks to receover. But with no MRI that is only a guess. If someone can help me figure out what the most likely cause of this pain is, and whether I should see a Chiro or jusy my regular doc or whatever. As it is, I cannot work, walk much, or sit without agony.

AS for the friend with the caudal equinal synfrome - yes that is an emergency and require an appointment with a surgeon. So what is it that I need?

Video junkie,

You need to see a spine surgeon for evaluation as to what is going on with your spine.

Either an orthopedic surgeon that specializes in spines or a neurosurgeon that specializes in spines only.

You have symptoms of a disc pressing on the nerves in your spine.

An emergency room is not the place to go for diagnosis of your spine problem.

It is true that a slipped disc can heal itself in about 6 weeks, but only with proper care and treatment.
First you need a diagnosis.

Do not go to a chiropractor for treatment. If your disc is a problem, chiropractic care can make it worse.

Please get an evaluation with a spinal surgeon. You will have to get an MRI done to find out what is going on, but that will be ordered by a spinal surgeon.

Good luck

Fran

hi gran. I live in Canada so although health care is free it is impossible to get an appointment with a surgeon unless your gp sends in an application outlying your symptoms. So far I have not beenable to see a surgeon and an MRI has a waiting list of 8 months. I am seeing my gp to tomorrow. I will beg for a fast MRI and a surgeon to see me. In the meantime what should I do? What makes you think it's a slipped disc and not something more serious. Will conservative therapy work?

The symptoms of your pain, the location of your pain all sound like herniated/slipped disc.

Without an MRI to confirm the diagnosis, no one can be sure.

See your GP and have him/her send in the information that you need to do within your health care system to get your diagnosis.

Conservative treatment is always the first line of treatment in spine problems, unless they present as an emergency and require emergency surgery.

Whether it will work depends on each individual person and how they respond to the treatment.

I can not diagnose you, I am not a doctor, and even if I was, I would need an MRI to do so.

I can only provide information, based on experience and knowledge that I have from my own research on my own spinal issues.

You might ask your GP for a script for either neurontin or lyrica to help ease any nerve pain that you have. Burning stinging, numbness and see if that helps you until you can get an MRI and see a spine surgeon.

From what I understand, if you can afford the cost, you could seek the treatment you need and pay for it out of your own wallet as well.

Fran

Thank you Fran,

Well I just tried walking to the store to get coffee. My right step is fine. But every step I take with my left leg is like a lightning bolt of pain in my lower left back and top of buttocks area. It does certainly feel like that would be a nerve. I'm wondering one thing: exactly how does a slipped disc correct itself over time? If I'm not a candidate for surgery how will it heal on its own? As it is, I can't walk well, or sit or lie or anything. I'm not sure why the doctors at ER don't seem to think this is an emergency. The injuru occurred 6 days ago and it has not gotten better AT ALL. If anything, its slight worse. And morphine does NOT kill the pain. Neither do anti-inflammatories or muscle relaxants - all of which leads me to believe it's nerve realted as well. I am very scared and confused because I feel like the longer I spend waiting for diagnises wtc....the worse it will get and that it may get to a point of no return. Am I wrong to think this way?

FYI: my previous injury (before I re-injured 6 days ago) was 3 years ago and the MRI report for that was as follows: "Borderline mild congenital spinal stenosis at L4 L5. Mild Disc Degeneration at L5/S1. There is mild posterior disc bulge associated with shallow left paracentral disc protrusion encroaching upon the lateral recess and neural foramen. There are also bilateral inferior osteophytes contributing to bilateral foraminal stenosis, worse on the left. No significant abnormality at the remaining disc space levels. IMPRESSION: Mild degenerative disc disease at L5/S1 as described above."

Now, with that MRI my doctor told me it was impossible to tell where my pain was coming from. She said she coul dpull a hundred people off the street with the same results and they would not be feeling pain. So I lived with the pain for 3 years and got by though somehwat uncomfortably. I an guessing my new injury as of 6 days ago is directly realted to the prior injury. Lke I stated earlier, I felt the slipping, sliding, jolting, tearing sensation right in the spot my injury has been in all along. But now the pain isi intolerable. If there is no pain in my legs, and only pain in that localized spot on my lower left back and butt, what is the worst case scenario and what is the best case scenario? Can a disc come right out??? Should I be stretching? I would welcome surgery if it was offered but the docs seem to think it's not an option at this point. Is it indeed possible that this will just get better with time? Ughhh.....thanks for your help. I have no other symptoms. I can pee and make bowel movements somewhat normally. It just hurts to twist and move.

Apparently the doctor you where seeing at the time of your original injury had no idea what she was looking at and couldn't understand what the radiologist reading meant.

You already had a bulging disc and spinal stenosis at the L4/L5 vertebrae. The disc bulge was already beginning to compress the nerves in the lateral recess and neural foramen area and bone narrowing in the foramen.

In other words the foramen area where the nerves go through the center of the vertebrae in your spine, in the L4/L5/L5/S1 area of your vertebrae had narrowed and there was compression on the nerves.

That is what was causing your pain then and no doubt the area has narrowed far more than it was before.

It is possible for a slipped disc to heal on it's own. Most of the time they do. What a slipped disc is simply the fluid that is inside the disc is leaking out and the fluid will irritate the nerves causing a burning, stinging type pain that you are feeling.
In time, the disc may or may not seal over and the pain will be gone.

What you do need is a course of physical therapy to help that disc heal. You need to learn core strengthening exercises to keep those core muscles strong and help prevent a repeat of the disc problem.
Sometimes the disc will not heal on it's own and you will need to have it surgically repaired and if it is caused by spinal stenosis, then the area of the stenosis needs to be enlarged so the nerves can be decompressed, the pressure removed from them.
In your case it sounds like you need the lateral recess area of your vertebrae widened as well as the foramen area.

That is surgery I have had twice and John above is having next month.

A disc does not just come out, but it bulges out as it flattens from loss of fluid.

The first thing that is needed is an MRI and consultation with a spine specialist. Whether surgery is indicated or a course of conservative treatment, which can be successful, depends on the findings on the MRI and how they match up with your symptoms.

The doctor that you saw with your first injury was not capable of taking you MRI and the findings and using it as a tool to help diagnose and treat you.

It is true, though millions of people are walking around with an MRI that looks just like yours and have no symptoms. Therefore nothing would be done to treat them. The key is using the MRI as a guide, part of the evaluation to diagnose the patient. Just because one person doesn't have symptoms with an MRI that looks like yours, doesn't mean that you or someone else would be the same.

The pain meds that you have been given and the muscle relaxants won't help you with the pain you are having from nerve compression. You need something like neurontin or lyrica to help relieve the pain. They are quite good at relieving nerve pain.

And yes, twisting and turning and moving can be quite painful with a disc problem.

You can try putting ice on the areas that hurt. Ice packs can help relieve some of the pain temporarily, and if that doesn't help, then moist heat may help.

Here's something easy to make for moist heat.

Take a long cotton tube sock and fill it about 1/2 to 2/3 full of the cheapest rice you can buy, but be sure you don't use instant or minute rice.
Tie a not in the open end of the sock and press the rice out along the sock to spread it out.

Heat it in a microwave oven for about 90 seconds. then wrap in a hand towel and place on the area that hurts. Be careful not to leave it on for more than 20 minutes at a time as you don't want to burn the area.

Those 2 ideas may help and let your doctor know that the meds you have are not working and you need something for nerve pain.

Good luck

Fran

And it im kind of disappointed and left confused.
he said that i do have spinal stenosis. And there is a possible cuada equina syndrome. But does not reccomend surgery because of my age.
He said the only thing he could do, would be to remove the disc, and insert pins and needles which would later on lead to more problems. And at my age, he does not want that. So he said I need to try the "traditional" ways, which have still proven ineffective.

I have been through physical therapy, been taking pain meds, been doing bed rest, been excersizing my back, heating pads, the same rice sock you reccomend to me above awhile ago, massages, and i've tried a nice hot tub dip, AND epidural shots.
NOTHING has worked. And Vicodin will not even touch the pain im experiencing, granted it does help me to walk, it does not take any of the pain away *(well, mask it)*.
Where should I go from here Fran? Im pretty much left to a dead end. I really dont want to have this surgery to be honest, but at the same time, the pain is unbareable to live with. Especially working, oh god its like someones stabbing me all day long.

Man. I really have no idea what to tell you. I've been told that they usually heal themselves, but it's been over 2 months and the pain is only worsening. My advice, is to listen to Fran, most definatly do that.

Phillyblunt,

the doctor you just saw sounds like a quack to me, in my opinion.

What you need to do is get another opinion ASAP and get one with an orthopedic surgeon that specializes in spines, if possible a sports medicine orthopedic surgeon that specializes in spines.

Telling you that you may have some cauda equina and ignoring it is totally insane and not acceptable.

The neurosurgeon was talking about doing a fusion for your spinal stenosis, and not what one likes to do on someone your age, but if there are no alternatives, then that is what is done.

You do not leave someone in the condition you are in without any treatment, especially with the cauda equaina symptoms that you have.

I don't know what the condition of your disc is, but if there is nothing left of it, then yes, they have to do a fusion, but your MRI didn't sound like that was the case.

There are other surgical procedures that can be done to decompress the nerves in your spine that are not fusion.
Unfortunately you saw a neurosurgeon and they are usually the ones that are gun hoe on the fusion and don't do other procedures for the spine.

Get to an orthopedic surgeon that specializes in spines ASAP before you have full loss of bladder control and suffer from that for the rest of your life.

Fran

Will do. They FINALLY changed my pain meds. but this time, i am reluctant to try because I dont know if it will work or not. He prescribed Darvocet, and Flexaril. I know pain meds aren't going to fix this problem by any means, but a moment i can live without pain, i'd pay for.

What ever happened to you, littleonefb??