Here Here.

Many people don't really want equality. Because equality would mean that each person has the same chance and opportunity as the next and all are treated the same.

I'm biracial so I've been accused of being racist (thats a joke) and all I could do was laugh. As the youngest person at my firm who also happens to be a woman, who is married and just had a baby I understand where you're coming from. Single employees think I discriminate because they are single, black employees think I discriminate because they're black, white employees think I discriminate because they're white childless employees think I discriminate because they don't have children, the ones with children think I discriminate because I'm pro-choice, the lsit goes on and on. Its never because they've been late a million times, lost a document, didn't meet a deadline, took off without permission, took a 2 or 3 hour lunch etc, its always because of some kind of discrimination. *smirk* Firing someone for poor job performance is their own fault. Racism exists but I don't see how it comes into play where someone isn't doing what they are supposed to do or as well as they are expected to do in THIS economy where the pool of qualified applicants runneth over. He should have been at minimum doing his job but further proving himself as someone who should stay on board, not because he's black and you're white but because chances are there are tons of other recently laid off people with families who are desperately seeking employment.

I'm a woman yet I think men should be able to *abort* fetuses too in the sense that they should be able to not have any trace of any connection to the fetus at any stage of its life, including after its born which means his name shouldn't appear on teh birth certificate nor shuld he be financially repsonsible for a child he doesn't want. Lots of women hate me for thinking that way.

As far as the native people go, I am Cree/Metis and I could provide you with a long list of the ways colonization has affected me. That isn't really the point of treaty rights though. The treaties were signed as a nation to nation agreement. The government of Canada agreed to the provisions of the treaties in exchange for being able to use the land and the native people agreed to settle peacefully on the land alloted to them, giving up their nomadic way of life. The government thought they had an easy deal because their plan was to "de-Indianize" the native people through residential schools, but they only succeeded to a certain degree. Many people who were part of the residential school system lost their culture and language and that still affects them and their offspring to this day. Also, many were abused and being raised institutionally meant that they never learned how to be a part of a family unit. There are generations of people who never had relationships with their mothers and fathers and when they began families of their own, their children were taken from them, one after another, to be placed in residential school where they were told that Indians are dirty and heathen and that they had to become like white people or they would go to hell. Generations of this occurred. Now there is no wonder that we have the social problems that we have.

The point I was trying to make, however, is that the treaties were not created to provide restitution for wrongs done to Aboriginal people, they were agreements that were signed between two soveriegn nations. You also benefit from the treaties by living in a peaceful land of plenty. This is a wonderful country with rich resources and so much space for everyone. You get those perks every day and you didn't have to give up your culture or language or land to get them.

Kaerbear. I'm not out to get you or anyone here, my problem is why would the government set us apart from natives or other people in general....

Natives are pushed up north, where there is a lack of jobs, therefore social assistance is necessary or thrown on a reserve. My problem is the fact you are not being treated equally and neither are we but their is pros and cons to this.

Personally I don't think a school system is required to preserve culture, religion or language and that is a job for parents or guardians. I understand culture is a big thing, my kids are bi-racial, I'm mixed and therefore I would only wish them to learn certain things.

Slavery also incurred much problems on black people, social status in those days also made problems, such as poor or middle income, we were judged.

So if we are all judged, unless I am a high income making white person, who is slim, blond haired and pretty, I will always be judged.......
I was made fun of in highschool, callecd anything just as other races are bullied, so what makes a difference or entitles one to something more?

It wasn't a school system, it was a *residential* school system. The children were taken from their parents at the age of 5 or so and put into residences that were hundreds of miles away from their families. They were not allowed to have contact with their own siblings. There was no choice for the parents. If they tried to hide their children, the children would just be found and taken by force. How can a parent teach their child anything when they have no contact with them? Think about how you would feel if someone came and took your children away because your culture was considered uncivilized and you were deemed a bad influence that had to be beaten out of your child? People really need to educate themselves about the history of this country and residential schools are a huge part of that history.

As for reserves, which is what I assume you mean about natives living in the north, what do you propose the government does about them? Just cut them off? Relocate them again? The government placed them there so that the southern parts of the country could be settled by white people. Another bit of history you might want to read up on a little.

I don't agree with the above at all, that is unfair and almost abuse, therefore I think we had a misunderstanding on this aspect. i probably would have been pretty pissed myself!



I mean to say that the government separates natives "reserves: not just up north but pretty much everywhere.

I know some pretty wicked native people and some of them who still dwell on the past. I just moved to British columbia and I have met more self sufficient native people in the past month of my life compared to the alcoholic back home, although, I don't think the past is a reason to blame your problems on. I think we should respect/remember the past but not carry it on to a new generation, christ I could rant about how my Italian/French ancestors were wrongly treated and how I deserve more but I don't.

We have a choice to make something of ourselves, yes some people like myself go through many sacrifices but I know one day it will pan out or maybes its just the optimist in me.

Uness your ancestors were slaves you wouldn't have much to compare it to. Of those groups of people who have gripes on the past Jews, Blacks, and native Americans pretty much hold an unwanted monopoly on it because of the severity of the brutality and injustice suffered in the past and how far reaching those injustices were. Slavery ended in America in 1865, but it was perfectly legal to kill a black man, woman or child for FUN decades after. The Holocaust, need I say more and of course the way natives were treated in just about any land there was colonization was depolrable there was a lot of forced race mixing in an attempt of genocide. Not that any of these things are the fault of the current generations but that to dismiss slavery is as deplorable as dismissing the Holocaust.

Yet another reason to know the history. Think about how this country was colonized. The first people hit were the ones in the east. There are whole tribes of indigenous people who were completely wiped out because of their contact with the first europeans. The last people to be impacted by colonization were those in the west, in B.C.. They saw what was coming and they prepared themselves slightly better for it. It took a longer time for colonization to hit the west but the people in the east had already suffered the effects and have suffered from them for a much longer time than the people in the west.

You have to acknowledge what happened in the past because it hasn't yet been healed. Ignoring it won't make it go away. When you have generations of an entire population of people who suffered a cultural genocide, the aftereffects are going to be long lasting. You say the "alcoholics back there" like all native people are alcoholics or something. The only reason people get that impression is because the ones who are on the street are the most visible and the most vulnerable. You talk as if they could just stop drinking tomorrow and suddenly they would be accepted as upstanding citizens and treated with the same respect that a white person would. I can't understand people who tell some of these really rough looking, obviously sick substance abusers who live on the street to "go get a job" as if it were just a matter of them showing up for work the next day. Who would hire them? They need help and part of that help is acknowledging the history which is a part of the reasons for the social problems that exist today. Racism exists at every level of our society. If you haven't experienced it yourself then you can never really understand it. Denying that it exists and denying the impact it has is just contributing to it. You really need to visit a library and get informed about the country you are living in. You might end up having some gratitude for what the native people have sacrificed so you can live comfortably in a peaceful and abundant land.

I was stabbed,I was abused I have had racist comments thrown my way because my children are half asian, who could pass of as native.

My kids get called chugs sometimes, sometimes I am asked where I adopted them and the whole time you don't see me picking up a bottle.

Getting a job would be east, everyone has problems on this planet, everyone but hey I made a resume, went through an interview and was hired. Did you know that aboriginal people are considered a minority and that the government has to to hire so many per year?

Did you know some companies are required to fill a quota for people of a visible minority, including natives? yes some of them do need help but if they can't make an effort to help themselves, then why should other be forced to help them? This goes for anyone in general.

I dated a native guy and lived on a reserve with him for a month but after him and all his friends drinking, I went back home. have I see what they get, yes I do, most of my friends are mixed part or half native and they get jobs, they don't live on reserves and they dont see no difference between me or you. On the half part most of them agree there is problems but why make an effort when someone is going to pay for you to survive, it doesn't teach one to be self sufficient.

right. and white people never drink and always have jobs.

I am a native person and I can tell you I never drink, I don't do drugs, I don't gamble, I work, I'm educated and I am tolerant of others. Sorry to blow your image of native people.

I never said all were like that , I know some who are very self sufficient but I'm talking in percentages here, not as a whole because there is always exceptions.

Ask yourself this though besides yourself how many other native from your reserve don't drink?

On the other hand I know tons of white people who are alcoholics but they still goto work, well most anyway if they aren'ts bums or living on welfare.

What Im generally trying to point out is a double standard, one the that the government has imposed, so basically natives have to work twice as hard to accomplish something but are almosted promoted to stay on welfare, on the reserve. Its like women who want equality but usually are the ones who go for full custody.

It goes both ways and I will blame both sides equally for a fault not just one!

Okay, as far as reserves go...I am from a reserve and I would love nothing more than to go back to my home community, to live among my own Cree people, to hear my language spoken every day, to see my family and just feel like I am in the place where I belong. That is the home that I knew growing up, where my grandparents lived, by the lake and forests where my grandfather fished and hunted and trapped food for his family. But I don't live there because there aren't enough jobs to go around. This isn't just a problem with reserves either, it's also a problem in many rural communities. I would have no work if I lived in my home community, or I would have to take work that is way below my earning potential. So, I live in the city instead. I have sympathy for people who have chosen to stay on the reserve. Some of them don't have the courage or the desire to put up with living among the "dominant" european culture that you find in cities. So, in return, they either live in poverty with inadequate earnings or on welfare. I am not making excuses for anyone, I am looking realistically at the real reasons that add up to the statistics. Native people aren't on welfare or using alcohol because they are inherently degenerate people. There are historical and contemporary reasons for the condition many reserves are in today. The problem is there are so many reasons and the situation is too complicated to go into on a message board like this one.

When it comes to the hiring practices of the government, I can't see how encouraging native people to work by trying to hire enough native people to fairly represent their percentage of the population can possibly contribute to native people being drunk or on welfare. I really don't get that, you could try explaning it I suppose, but to be honest, having to defend these things to people like you over and over and over my whole life, just like most native people have to do, just makes me tired and irritated.

Also, you say in your original post, that it was the great great great grandparents who suffered. I know many people my mother's age who were in residential schools because they didn't close them all down until the 1960's. When I say you should read up on these things, I am not being facetious or sarcastic, I really mean it. It is a shame that more people don't know these things because they are very significant parts of our history as a nation. My mom's best friend still suffers the effects of being in residential school. She has struggled as a parent because she never learned how to live in a family dynamic. She was raised by nuns who mistreated her even when she was a young child. She once had a flashback when she was out for dinner at a fancy restaurant when the waiter poured her a glass of water she burst into tears. She said she suddenly went back to the times when she was deprived of food and water by the nuns in the residential school and she and the other children resorted to drinking water from the toilet because they were so dehydrated. She works hard and owns her own house outright. But she still struggles emotionally from her upbringing in the residential school system. You can't tell me that the residential schools didn't effect her or her children.

And another thing, for your information, most of the native people I know work hard for a living and are not alcoholics. Out of my mother's family of 11 siblings who are still alive, 8 are educated professionals and 3 own their own businesses. All of my own siblings are educated and working. My brother is a crown attorney. So, no, most of the native people I know are not drunks, sorry if your friends are alcoholics, but mine aren't.

There are still "minorities" being affected by racism today. Not too long ago, blacks and other "minorities" were still fighting for equal rights. Your comment about "...great, great, great """"" grandparents who suffered" shows you don't really know the history of racial discrimination. Stereotypes and misconceptions of blacks, hispanics, and asians still continue. Cops still profile. People still focus on illegal immigration of people of hispanic origin, even though many white races come to the united states illegally, also (such as in Canada).

[quote="NeutralUsername
There are still "minorities" being affected by racism today. Not too long ago, blacks and other "minorities" were still fighting for equal rights. Your comment about "...great, great, great """"" grandparents who suffered" shows you don't really know the history of racial discrimination. Stereotypes and misconceptions of blacks, hispanics, and asians still continue. Cops still profile. People still focus on illegal immigration of people of hispanic origin, even though many white races come to the united states illegally, also (such as in Canada).[/quote]

Oh I know racism is still visible, Im not that ignorant move to quebec with two bi-racial children alot of them are still extremely racist....


What I am trying to say I guess is just because you have racism in your life does it make it okay to put the blame everywhere and not take responsibility?

On the other hand, like with my old co-worker, does it make it okay when hiring or something similar to blame their lack of production on racism?

When I hear someone who is like I can't do anything because everything was taken away from, it upsets me because we know that humans are capable of achieving pretty much anything if an effort was made.

You say it's not okay to blame all your problems on everyone else. I don't know what that has to do with the government or equal opportunity employment programs. These programs are only supposed to counteract the systemic racism that causes many companies to unfairly favour caucasian men in their hiring practices because of prejudices that exist to this day against people of colour and other minority groups. What that means is that in many instances a noticibly aboriginal person will be scrutinized more closely and will have to be more exeptional than a white male when being considered for a job. The hiring manager may not even know that they have this prejudice. Like you, even after making all of the statements you have made here, they would never admit to being prejudiced or racist. Because people will not police themselves in that manner, these programs are in place to work against systemic racism only to make the opportunities more equitable, not to make your life miserable or make the lives of aboriginal people or visible minorities or people with disabilities easier than yours.

You, yourself, say that most of the aboriginal people you have known have been drunks and you imply that they are lazy and unwilling to work. It wouldn't surprise me at all then, if you had these images in your mind when hiring and if you had to choose between two qualified candidates, you would probably choose a non-native person over a native person, because of your pre-existing views of native people. If the person you worked with accused you of racism, I can't completely disagree with him or her. I don't know if that's the reason you fired them or not, and maybe they were wrong to think that, but their playing the race card is no better or worse tha many of the statements and implications you've made in this thread and I don't see it as having any negative impact on the policies of fair hiring practices that are in place today.