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Q: Dysthymia ?
asked by: Saternsolide on October 31st, 2009
New User
The other day I searched "depression, lack of motivation" on google. I did this because lately it sums up how I have been feeling. What came up was this website. Although I was a bit reluctant to make an account, I decided I should give it a go.

From time to time, I've gone through phases where I've just felt lonely and sad. Recently, I feel like this is more predominant. I feel like my motivation to do things depletes day by day. And worse, I feel like trying is pointless. My inevitable mentality these days is, "why try when we'll just die eventually?" Sometimes I even have somewhat suicidal thoughts. I have an interest in what comes after this life. But I'm not going to kill myself, I have that much self-control. I know it is depressing and I wish I didn't feel that way, but i just do.

I've always had strong interests and vast ambitions. I play in a band and several orchestras. My music has taken me all around the world at a young age. I've been to countries such as Iceland, Norway, Denmark etc. playing music. Soon, I will be going to Spain, Morocco, Portugal, Madeira, Canary Islands, and Palma di Maiorca. Last year at 15, I performed at Carnegie Hall in NYC in addition to many well known festivals in New York. My band has been told "you guys are gunna make it huge" and other big compliments. Reciting these acomplishments makes me proud you could say, but once again I ask myself, what's the point? My interest to pursue these things leaves me more and more. Additionally, an endless stream of events has plagued me from making it any closer to achieving anything I care about. There's no limit to how much misfortune my band has gone through in the past few months and as I type this I'm waiting to hear from my keyboard player to tell me if we have or have not lost every single file we have been recording as of late. He might not know tonight being our computer is beyond horrible but that makes it that much worse being I have no idea when I will know the outcome. My goal to become a musician is ripped from me more and more each day.

In addition to music, I have a great interest in nature. I've been interested in it since I was very young. The fact that creatures can live in such perfect harmony for millions of years just amazes me. On the other hand, humans have destroyed so much of our planet in the short span of time we have inhabited it. I've done many camps and whatnot at zoos and community service at animal hospitals and my love has never left me. My goal is to try to do something in conservation and go to a place like Africa and get involved with the conservational work there. But recently, I feel there is no point of even trying cuz my work will do nothing but stand as a small pebble for some ignorant, nescient being to destroy.

My ambitions have revolved around these two things and further on in my life, my ideas flourished into the concept of trying to do something big with my life. I wanted to help the world; sought out it's problems. But this too seems pointless.

Recently as well, my misanthropic feelings have spiked. I see through the idiots I have to live each day with. I don't want to judge people, but I can't see anything more in them than unintelligent fools that pose as nothing more then a malevolent hope for our country and our world. Even more, I see a parent to child trend which leads me to believe these kids will never change and continue to destroy all that is good in the world.

Frustration is another big factor. Things have always frustrated me a lot. Little things, things that are so insignificant. But I can't help it and they drive me up the wall. Even signing up for this website! I had to type in my info like 8 times because I kept messing up the code that makes sure you're not a robot.

Another thing is a growing anger within my family. Although it rarely involves me directly, I sometimes I feel like it affects the most. There is constant, and I mean constant, arguing and screaming between my mother and brother. As I type this I hear them screaming. I really kills me to hear it and leaves me really hurt inside.

With all these problems ravaging, I suddenly realized I might have some kind of disorder or depression, I don't even know. I have thought I might have before, but I always pushed the idea out of my head. So I searched what I mentioned before and got this. I try not show these feelings in front of my family but it always cuts through. They always know when something is wrong. But I don't want to go to them and say I think I need to see someone or whatever I need. Besides, I don't even think seeing a psychologist would really help. I'm afraid of telling people I think I might have a problem.

Today I was looking at disorders that relate to my life lately. I came across Dysthymia. Of the symptoms I saw, I have them all. Feelings of hopelessness, insomnia, poor concentration or difficulty making decisions, low energy and fatigue, low self-esteem, and poor appetite. I have been feeling all these things lately and very much so indeed. Could this be the source of these feelings?

Thanks for helping me, it means so much.
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Elevation
replied on November 1st, 2009
Experienced User
Dysthymia is really just a state of depression. To answer your question, no, it is not the 'source' of the feelings. It is the 'meanings' you are applying to your circumstances that are the source of the negative feelings. The more we pay attention to the negative, the worse we feel. Eventually it becomes a habitual way of thinking and we condition ourselves to 'suffer from depression'.

I believe we as individuals can change the world, but not by giving our energy to what is wrong with it. The world is and always will be in a constant state of change. This in mind, look at history and it will be hard to argue against the fact that is has improved tremendously; so shall it continue as we grow.

Keep your love for animals and nature, and continue to strive to do all you can do. It shows remarkable character and compassion.

I am sorry to hear about the issues with your family, situations as you described are a great source of stress for many. I assure you however, you coming to a negative place will not help to resolve the issues between you mother and brother.

As for your computer problems, I am 99% sure your files can be saved at zero cost, but the computer itself may be another issue. If you eventually 'hit the wall' with it, let me know and I will help you get your files. At any rate, your passion for music is by no means pointless. It is an outlet where you have an opportunity to create pleasure for yourself and countless numbers of people; that is a great gift you have.

Understand that there will always be struggle for every person, always. We try to avoid it, but it is a necessity of life. As ridiculous as it may sound now, be grateful for it, because it is only by some sort of struggle that we have the great fortune to develop and grow. Nature shows us when something stops growing, it dies. A good example I know you can relate to is the music you create. When you first started playing an instrument, your skills did not just happen, you struggled and forced yourself to continue until you became an expert. As you indicated the results of that struggle now bring you a high level of joy; as it should.

I can tell you are a great person, who is extremely intelligent, caring, and not without great purpose.
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Users who thank Elevation for this post: Saternsolide 
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Saternsolide
replied on November 1st, 2009
New User
Thank you so much Elevation. I feel better from reading what you said.

I feel like I am perhaps confused, and vent my confusion in negativity. A lot of the time I rub off on people as a really happy guy. But I always feel uncomfortable on the inside. Sometimes sad, and othertimes just indescribable. It comes in waves I suppose. And I'm just so confused as to why. I totally disfigures me on the inside. A lot of the time I feel the way you do about many of things I felt negatively about early. Is it natural to feel these ways?
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Elevation
replied on November 2nd, 2009
Experienced User
It is natural to feel negative states and there is nothing wrong with it. Negative emotions serve us as they are a feedback mechanism to let us know if our experience is 'on track' with our desires. They are messengers, but for too many people they become jailers.

One of the greatest secrets of life is learning how to use these emotions instead of having these emotions use us. If we master this, we literally control life, if not, life literally controls us.

As I stated, negative emotions carry a message that we must recognize and act upon, but not and never by focusing our attention on it. Rather understand it and focus our attention on its solution. The problem for many is that when we come into these states, we may not want to change focus, even though we feel bad. The reason is a state of depression actually serves to meet our need for connection; if that need is not fulfilled otherwise. The state is a form of self caressing, and it serves to meet other needs as well. A conscious awareness of alternative means to meet these needs can often resolves this problem, if not additional steps need to be taken. Moreover, we become addicted to anything that meets multiple needs.

Another problem with a negative state like depression is this: any time we are experiencing a peak state, rather positive or negative, anything that is happening around us that is unique gets associated in our subconscious to the state we are feeling.

Think about this for a moment, how many times will a two-year-old touch a hot burner? One time. Even though they do not have the capacity to reason or understand they did something wrong. The moment they touch it, the pain signal is sent to the brain. Instantly the subconscious takes in everything that is happening at that moment. It sees what is unique about this situation is the hand is on the burner. In the blink of an eye it makes the association, overrides the conscious mind, and jerks the hand away. In fact, most people who have experienced this 'peak' state as a small child will have difficulty putting their hand on a burner they know is not hot, for the rest of their life; even if they do not consciously remember ever touching it.
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Saternsolide
replied on November 4th, 2009
New User
I've been thinking through your last post here for a few days now, which is why I've taken so long to respond. It has really sunk in and I feel much better.

I feel embarrassed by the way I felt before because in all honesty, I had no reason to be miserable. The scary thing to me is at the time I actually felt that way at the time and I'm not sure why. I want to prevent myself from ever entering that state of mind again. How do I do this? It seems so difficult because it happens so sporadically and when it does I can't leave it. Do have an tips on ways I can keep myself from entering this dark state of mind?
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Elevation
replied on November 5th, 2009
Experienced User
I'm so glad to see you are feeling better, that is awesome.

Your description of it coming on 'sporadically' indicates that an 'anchor' has been triggered. As I described above, an anchor is created in the mind during a peak state of emotion. The best way to remove an anchor is to fire off one that is more powerful of the opposite nature. Following is how to do it.

To create a positive anchor, get yourself into a great state of mind. Put on your favorite music, stand tall with your chest out, breathing deep; generate inside a feeling of absolute love, joy, and power. When you get to feeling great, do something over and over that is totally unique. Like for instance, while in this great state, tug back and forth on your ears and make a weird sound like "ye ye ye, ye ye ye, ye ye ye", on and on. Do it enough while feeling great, it will create and anchor specific to that emotion. Anything will work as long as it is different and somewhat crazy. It is best to create a number of them.

The magic is, anytime in the future after you create these anchors, you can perform the exact same actions and your mind will fire off the feeling.

For me, all I have to do at any moment is squeeze my nose and go, "honk" and I instantly feel great. Or I can pound my chest like King Kong and I instantly feel powerful.

You have seen this before, for instance if you watch sports. Professional athletes do this all the time. Football players might smack their teammates helmet, or slam their heads together; this is their 'anchor' to put themselves into a peak state. A basketball player might bounce the ball a certain number of times before shooting the free throw shot, or make a certain facial gesture before shooting. If you watch you will see the same player do the same 'whatever' each time. We could go on and on but I think you get my point.

Now, to remove the negative anchor. What I do is get the individual into the negative state, and then get them to fire off the new anchors. This way it is controlled, and seems easier for the person to follow through. Sometimes we know we should not feel 'whatever' but we don't want to or feel unable to come out of the state. This is because it is meeting a need, rather or not we are not aware of it. However there are a multitude of ways to meet the same needs in ways that are sustainable, and conscious awareness of them will often provide the mind with another path to choose; provided we remove the anchor.

What happens is when two opposite anchors come up side by side, the most powerful one destroys the weaker one. So get yourself into the state you do not wish to experience, do that by putting your body in the right posture, and focus on what you focus on when you are 'down', and say to yourself what it is you say to yourself when you are in the negative mindset. Once the feeling is 'there', jump out by firing off your new anchors, and keep them in place by holding the mental focus on your desire. You can repeat this process until you are unable to get depressed.

Unfortunately we do not always consciously recognize our anchors, as they are usually created without our knowledge, so there will be times when they fire off from stimulation from the outside world. The moment they come up in life, fire off your new positive anchors, and they will disappear.

Sorry to make these posts so long, but clarity is true power!
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Saternsolide
replied on November 8th, 2009
New User
I've been trying to create this positive anchor, but so far I haven't had much luck. I'm confused as to how it works and how you create one. From what I understand, it seems like to me this positive anchor is a physical way to remind oneself what its like to have a positive mentality in an negetive mood. Is this correct?
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Elevation
replied on November 9th, 2009
Experienced User
If you are having trouble, it is only from one of the following reasons: The state you want to associate to a certain action is not peak. If it is a peak state, then your action is not unique enough to tell the subjective, "this action must be the cause of the good feeling." Or it is not conditioned by repetition. Like the burner scenario, it was a peak state, and the action was unique enough to send the right message to the mind of what caused the pain.

Associations are created all the time, it is a function of the mind. The challenge is, for most it happens automatically and without our knowledge. Therefore these 'anchors' do not always serve us, or always have a real basis in reality.

Let me ask you, have you ever walked into a room where someone was sitting, and you knew something was wrong with them without them saying a word? Humans are all 'natural psychologist', and and we pick up on ones mood by their physiology. Your physiology is a mirror of the emotion you are feeling at the moment. The magic is understanding that it works both ways.

In fact, to illustrate the power of our physiology, think about this. When we are talking to someone, the actual words we use only represents 7%. Which explains why we can tell when someone is in a negative place. Physiology is 55% of influence in communication. The other 38% is in the tonality of the voice.

If I asked you to describe someone who is depressed, where would you say their head is, up over the shoulders, or down, facing the floor? How about their shoulders, back, or slumped forward? You could answer these questions without even thinking.

Dancing is a good example, ever wonder why a people who dance love to do it? It does not require deep thought to shake about on the dance floor; it is the movement that creates the positive emotion.
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Saternsolide
replied on November 15th, 2009
New User
I have been trying again for about a week now. Let me clarify some things:

1. Is the purpose of this technique to create an association to a time of joy and happiness through a physical motion?
2. If so, do you create this physical motion during a time of joy or happiness and recreate it in times of depression?
3. If those two points are correct, I believe I already have something similar. There is certain music that I listened to a lot in high points of my life and when I listen to it, it brings me back to those great times and it feels great. The only things is once the song ends I pretty much return to my previous mentality. Is this a positive anchor?

I hope I'm not being too demanding, but can you answer these points corresponding to the numbers? I think that way we can straighten this out. Once again, thank you so much.
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Elevation
replied on November 16th, 2009
Experienced User
You are not at all demanding my friend. First understand it is not so much a technique as it is only a strategy for controlling what is already occurring. Lets go over your questions by number.

1. Yes, create the association to the emotion.

2. Yes. Make your 'move' when you feel something you do not want to feel.

3. Exactly, the music itself is a positive anchor. The only problem is as you stated it must be playing in order to activate the anchor. So while it is playing, do something unique with your body. The easiest thing is to celebrate as you would when your favorite team scores a touchdown, throw your arms up, squeeze your fists tightly, and say "yes!" Repetition will condition the anchor to the emotion.

Remember this, all of our feelings serve us, as long as we understand what they mean and do not allow them to control what we think or how we act. If something occurs and we become upset by it, immediately think about what the emotion is telling us, and then act according to the solution.

You have the right idea. Let me know how you are coming along.
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