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Dont force your beliefs on me (Page 1)

For years I have heard pro choice people say people shouldnt force their beliefs on others.... I wonder if they truely believe this?

There is a bill currently going before congress and if passed President Obama has said he will sign into law called The Freedom Of Choice Act (F.O.C.A) this will remove all restrictions on abortion. Many pro choice people will be happy. However the bill will force Catholic Hospitals and Care agencies to provide abortions. So i wonder how many pro choice advocates who espouse the notion of not forcing the beliefs of one on another will oppose this bill because it forces pro choice beliefs on Catholics.

Here is a link to a news story.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/arti cle.aspx?RsrcID=46082
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replied April 4th, 2009
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The only thing that the bill might do is result in loss of federal funding for Catholic hospitals that refuse...But everyone knows that consience costs money. It's their choice!
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replied April 4th, 2009
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It will force doctors to do their jobs if they want federal funding and it will force pharmacists to do their jobs and fill prescriptions rather than discriminating against females and denying them legal medications.

If you don't believe in serving meat, stop working at the steakhouse. If you're against racing horses, don't work at the racetrack. If you find it morally objectionable to strip for money, don't be a stripper. Nobody is "forcing" anyone to do anything...you don't have to work at a job that offers services which compromise your morals. Nobody is forcing you to. What this does is force Christians to do the same thing everyone else has to do...what they're PAID for.
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replied April 4th, 2009
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Finally some common sense, so now they are making people do their jobs or they won't get paid for it, its a good step in the right direction.

Why is the government funding christian hospitals anyway, isn't there a seperation between senate and religion?

Its like being an artist, I don't get government funding but to be an artist you have to be the best, sometimes doing what you don't like to be paid. The arts can support themselves, regardless of my views.

The rev said we were prohibiting someones freedom, nope not at all, religion should not be in the workplace or your morals inflicted upon another.

Finally someone thinking about the betterment of woman, I think Obamas the best thing to happen!!
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replied April 4th, 2009
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Re: Dont force your beliefs on me
Gu£st wrote:
For years I have heard pro choice people say people shouldnt force their beliefs on others.... I wonder if they truely believe this?

There is a bill currently going before congress and if passed President Obama has said he will sign into law called The Freedom Of Choice Act (F.O.C.A) this will remove all restrictions on abortion. Many pro choice people will be happy. However the bill will force Catholic Hospitals and Care agencies to provide abortions. So i wonder how many pro choice advocates who espouse the notion of not forcing the beliefs of one on another will oppose this bill because it forces pro choice beliefs on Catholics.

Here is a link to a news story.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/arti cle.aspx?RsrcID=46082


THIS IS ANOTHER TYPICAL ANTI-CHOICE LIE. HERE ARE THE FACTS:

Would FOCA do as Hennenberger says - force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions?

Unequivocally no, says Jill Morrison, senior counsel at the National Women's Law Center. Federal conscience clause law, such as the Church Amendment, states that simply receiving public funding does not turn a hospital into a "state actor," Morrison explains. "FOCA must be read consistently with existing federal law, unless the new law explicitly provides that it is intended to repeal existing law."

Morrison adds, "A hospital is not a state actor, and cannot be magically transformed into one due to its getting Federal funding, as set forth in the Church Amendment."

Hennenberger goes on to defend the Department of Health and Human Services's proposed new, expanded provider conscience regulations that would allow providers to refuse to refer women for critical medical care - like abortion in the case of life-threatening pregnancy, or emergency contraception after sexual assault - that a provider may opt out of providing him or herself.

source
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replied April 5th, 2009
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I have read the FOCA and there is *nothing* in there forcing Catholic, or any, hospitals to perform abortion. What FOCA is about, is making sure GOVERNMENT does not interfere with a woman's right to choose. Why must some anti-choicers insist on blatantly lying about this legislation????
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replied April 5th, 2009
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The question is avoided not answered
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replied April 5th, 2009
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Gu£st wrote:
The question is avoided not answered


If the question is based on a false premise, it cannot be answered.
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replied April 5th, 2009
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lol!
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replied April 5th, 2009
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lmao~! .
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replied April 5th, 2009
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I thought I answered the question pretty clearly. There's nothing wrong with forcing people to do their jobs. Christian types don't have special privilege to pick and choose only parts of the job they want to perform, despite what they might believe in their arrogance.
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replied April 7th, 2009
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If I become an ob/gyn because I want to DELIVER babies why then is it all of a suddent my job to abort them? There are abortion clinics abound why is there even a need to go to a CATHOLIC hospital for an abortion ever? Would a pedaphile be able to go see a therapist who had been raped as a child? Should she not be able to refuse that patient because she doesn;t want to hear sordid details of children being raped and molested or should she suck it up and get over it so that the pedaphile can express his right to seek medical care wherever he wants to?

Should women who work in customer service be forced to listen to and service a man who screams at them and tells them they are second class imbecilees because they weren't born with a penis? Wouldn't she NOT be doing her job if she went instead to get security or refused service?

Darkmoon wrote:
It will force doctors to do their jobs if they want federal funding and it will force pharmacists to do their jobs and fill prescriptions rather than discriminating against females and denying them legal medications.

If you don't believe in serving meat, stop working at the steakhouse. If you're against racing horses, don't work at the racetrack. If you find it morally objectionable to strip for money, don't be a stripper. Nobody is "forcing" anyone to do anything...you don't have to work at a job that offers services which compromise your morals. Nobody is forcing you to. What this does is force Christians to do the same thing everyone else has to do...what they're PAID for.
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replied April 7th, 2009
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Again, the only "forcing" is to force people to do their jobs. My job as a salesperson wouldn't include allowing a sexist pig to scream in my face and therefore I could make a complaint with the manager or take other action, but I wouldn't have to take it. Poor comparison.

If you want to compare feminine health care with clothing or everyday interactions, maybe a better comparison would be someone that doesn't believe in breast implants selling bras.

The issue here is people refusing to do the job they are paid for or sucking money from taxpayers whilst refusing to provide those same taxpayers services they might need. Preventing a rape victim from becoming pregnant in the first bloody place is NOT the same as aborting a pregnancy. These woman-hating catholics that believe they are doing "god's will" by forcing pregnancy on rape victims by stalling or preventing care that might prevent pregnancy in the first place are NO BETTER than the rapists themselves.

Raping a woman's right to prevent pregnancy is nothing to be proud of. As for performing abortions, only specialists provide abortion on demand and hospitals and their staff are not expected to do abortions except for therapeudic reasons. Do you seriously want me to buy the argument that Catholics should have the right to endanger women's health and lives for their misogynistic religious beliefs? No. Sorry, no sale.

Do you expect me to accept Christian/Catholic pharmacists making it more difficult for women to obtain birth control-whether it's therapeutic or simply because they don't want to get pregnant? Sorry, no.

Like I said, if you don't like some of the aspects of the job, don't take it.
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replied April 8th, 2009
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This makes no sense to me, I delivered my baby at a Catholic hospital and for health reasons an abortion was advised at the hospital. The only issue was when discussing the option of abortion if I had wanted an elective abortion my gyn would not perform it at the office in the Catholic hospital.

The best example would be to say a woman who is a criminal defense attorney being forced to represent a misognist client who she knows from his own mouth is guilty of raping a woman. The poeple who perform abortions are titled "abortionists" it is THEIR job to perform abortions, obstetricians deliver babies and specialize in prenatal care. Why should a obstetrician be told that part of his job is to abort the babies he's sworn to keep healthy and see into delivery? There are so many other options why would anyone WANT to have an abortion in a Catholic Hospital? Its like wanting to eat a pork chop in a Jewish or Muslim restaurant.

Darkmoon wrote:
Again, the only "forcing" is to force people to do their jobs. My job as a salesperson wouldn't include allowing a sexist pig to scream in my face and therefore I could make a complaint with the manager or take other action, but I wouldn't have to take it. Poor comparison.

If you want to compare feminine health care with clothing or everyday interactions, maybe a better comparison would be someone that doesn't believe in breast implants selling bras.

The issue here is people refusing to do the job they are paid for or sucking money from taxpayers whilst refusing to provide those same taxpayers services they might need. Preventing a rape victim from becoming pregnant in the first bloody place is NOT the same as aborting a pregnancy. These woman-hating catholics that believe they are doing "god's will" by forcing pregnancy on rape victims by stalling or preventing care that might prevent pregnancy in the first place are NO BETTER than the rapists themselves.

Raping a woman's right to prevent pregnancy is nothing to be proud of. As for performing abortions, only specialists provide abortion on demand and hospitals and their staff are not expected to do abortions except for therapeudic reasons. Do you seriously want me to buy the argument that Catholics should have the right to endanger women's health and lives for their misogynistic religious beliefs? No. Sorry, no sale.

Do you expect me to accept Christian/Catholic pharmacists making it more difficult for women to obtain birth control-whether it's therapeutic or simply because they don't want to get pregnant? Sorry, no.

Like I said, if you don't like some of the aspects of the job, don't take it.
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replied January 21st, 2010
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I don't think that's fair. I have never believed in such act. NO ONE should be forced to do anything they aren't ok with. I'm pro-choice and plan on becoming an OBGYN but I would NEVER perform an abortion. I just couldn't do it. I would gladly refer my patient somewhere else but if I were FORCED to do it, I'd have to move. Pro-life doctors should never be forced or coerced into doing something that would make it hard for them sleep at night. This is 100% messed up and I would never wish this on anyone.
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replied January 22nd, 2010
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MsKitty325 wrote:
I don't think that's fair. I have never believed in such act. NO ONE should be forced to do anything they aren't ok with. I'm pro-choice and plan on becoming an OBGYN but I would NEVER perform an abortion. I just couldn't do it. I would gladly refer my patient somewhere else but if I were FORCED to do it, I'd have to move. Pro-life doctors should never be forced or coerced into doing something that would make it hard for them sleep at night. This is 100% messed up and I would never wish this on anyone.


And you would be surprised how many wonderful pro-choice women who would have been ob-gyns instead chose another speciality because they could not do an abortion.

Like I said, who would WANT to have a person performing their abortion who was against doing it? That wouldn't be a very pleasant experience and would probably make things much harder on women who chose to have abortions. Catholic Hospitals have crucifixes in EVERY SINGLE ROOM. There are priests and nuns walking around at any given time, and considering that pro-life anti-abortion rhetoric is built around faith-based shame, wouldn't that just make things harder than they had to be?
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replied January 22nd, 2010
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Phenicks wrote:
MsKitty325 wrote:
I don't think that's fair. I have never believed in such act. NO ONE should be forced to do anything they aren't ok with. I'm pro-choice and plan on becoming an OBGYN but I would NEVER perform an abortion. I just couldn't do it. I would gladly refer my patient somewhere else but if I were FORCED to do it, I'd have to move. Pro-life doctors should never be forced or coerced into doing something that would make it hard for them sleep at night. This is 100% messed up and I would never wish this on anyone.


And you would be surprised how many wonderful pro-choice women who would have been ob-gyns instead chose another speciality because they could not do an abortion.

Like I said, who would WANT to have a person performing their abortion who was against doing it? That wouldn't be a very pleasant experience and would probably make things much harder on women who chose to have abortions. Catholic Hospitals have crucifixes in EVERY SINGLE ROOM. There are priests and nuns walking around at any given time, and considering that pro-life anti-abortion rhetoric is built around faith-based shame, wouldn't that just make things harder than they had to be?


Sorry but that just cracked me up! Thanks for the giggle today!
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replied January 28th, 2010
This is all very interesting from both sides.
I hear this refrain repeated, If you don't like some 'aspects' of your job, don't take it. Or, Christians should just do their jobs, like everybody else. Interesting rhetoric...
A strong moral objection to an act that is considered akin to murder seems a bit more significant than just being merely an 'aspect' of one's job. It isn't as if you are saying, "I don't like cleaning the waiting room." If someone told you to perform an act of the most abject immorality, according to your standards, would you do it? If so, that says a lot about integrity.
Life isn't an 'aspect' of one's job, it is one of the highest principles of reality.

Secondly, "Don't take the job, or get another job." First, what of people who have been in said job? What if you spent 4 years of college, 3 years of medical school and a residency, not to mention money etc., to perform said job. Now, someone says, go get another job if you don't like it! LOL...right. On that note, otherwise qualified individuals will not enter the field because of serious moral objections. What if a law passed that allowed the termination of medically compromised children below the age or 2 by pediatricians...something advocated by several prominent bioethicists. You might object to the analogy, but pro-lifers put the same stock into pre-womb as they do post-womb babies. If you don't like this assumption, fine. Yet, to say that they SHOULD perform abortion on demand, if in fact it is enacted by law (which isn't the case yet) because it's just part of the job has little substance.
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replied January 31st, 2010
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You're kidding me here right? Because if your basic premise, passing a bill to allow abortion, which is a personal choice, always is offensive to you then we really need to redo the entire constitution starting with amendment numero uno..
If giving people the freedom to make their own choices is 'bad' then it doesn't matter the social issue; its just bad.
So you must really hate having freedom of religion you are entitled to by law then.
No?
Hypocrit.
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replied January 31st, 2010
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Phenicks wrote:
If I become an ob/gyn because I want to DELIVER babies why then is it all of a suddent my job to abort them? There are abortion clinics abound why is there even a need to go to a CATHOLIC hospital for an abortion ever? Would a pedaphile be able to go see a therapist who had been raped as a child? Should she not be able to refuse that patient because she doesn;t want to hear sordid details of children being raped and molested or should she suck it up and get over it so that the pedaphile can express his right to seek medical care wherever he wants to?

Should women who work in customer service be forced to listen to and service a man who screams at them and tells them they are second class imbecilees because they weren't born with a penis? Wouldn't she NOT be doing her job if she went instead to get security or refused service?

Darkmoon wrote:
It will force doctors to do their jobs if they want federal funding and it will force pharmacists to do their jobs and fill prescriptions rather than discriminating against females and denying them legal medications.

If you don't believe in serving meat, stop working at the steakhouse. If you're against racing horses, don't work at the racetrack. If you find it morally objectionable to strip for money, don't be a stripper. Nobody is "forcing" anyone to do anything...you don't have to work at a job that offers services which compromise your morals. Nobody is forcing you to. What this does is force Christians to do the same thing everyone else has to do...what they're PAID for.


again I don't see you jabbering about how terrible it is to have the freedome to chose your religion? the freedome to express yourself no matter how offensive I find your position to be.
Admit it.. you just wan to uphold the right of a particular religion sect to jerk around on the job and still get paid.
If everyone having the right to choose for themselves was actually offensive to you you'd move your rear out of the U.S. and go live somewhere nice and proactive like oh.. Afghanistan. I'm sure the Taliban will love you.
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