Hello Wolf,
No, I didn't mean to imply that at all. I'm not sure how I came across like that because I didn't even mention pleasure, but perhaps I did not express myself clearly. If so, I'll try to do better.
What I am saying is that sex is the act of and responsibility of TWO parties, not just one. For any society to put the "blame" of premarital sex (as some cultures see it) on one party is incomprehensible. Similarly, the responsibility of children that may result must be the responsibility of both parties, not just one. Sex is the act and responsibility of two people, not just one, unless it is rape.
You also bring up a good point, with which I agree, that in some societies women put women in subservient roles. I suspect that in at least some of the cases, this is a response to the powerlessness of women. By gaining power or control over someone with even less power than themselves, (another woman) they feel some (false) sense of control over their situation/condition. In other cases it might be pure ego. There can be so many reasons, none of which justify the action and only further supress the importance and value of women in society.
However, I do believe that the women in these societies are powerless. Fear, naivity, very powerful societal pressures, are just some of the reasons they reinforce and promote these ideas in thier children. These are women who are deliberately sheltered, uneducated, and in many cases naive of the world or other ways of doing things for the purpose of maintaining control over them. Those who are fortunate enough to be more educated or worldly or to have been exposed to different ideas typically find it hard if not impossible to go against the societal norm. Doing so would mean the loss of what little support they have, isolation, and possibly the retribution of family and others in society against themselves and possibly their children. Retribution takes many forms up to violence and even death.
Here is just one example of the power and control men exercise over women and the powerlessness of women in these situations. Here is a quote from a fatwa by the late and unlamented Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran:
"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine. Other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."
There are sites that gives some graphic but factual information on recent honor killings in countries all over the world. I cannot help but cry when I read the stories of these innocent victims.
I happen to come from a country in which honor killings among those of the Muslim faith are known to occur so I have some exposure to this and possibly a different point of view. My family and I are not Muslim and I was raised by comparitavely "very modern" parents in the US (the greatest country in the world by the way).
Let me give you an example of one experience I had there at 16. A young man I never saw before asked me to dance while at a town concert. I had gone to the concert with only my (female) cousin and we were having a wonderful time watching the concert. Everyone there knew one another and knew who I was too. I was the visiting "American girl" and a novelty. Turns out the young man was a muslim although I had no idea at the time. I politely said "no, thank you". In front of everyone at the concert, he started screaming at me in my face, tried to slap me, pushed me very hard, and waved his arms at me. He said he would kill me on my way home for "denying him" in front of his friends. He threatened to beat me up right then and there. I didn't know to take him seriously (age and cultural naivity) and I was shocked, embarrased and infuriated by his actions. Not one person there came to my defense, male or female, younger or older. My cousin, bless her, who is a year younger than I am was frozen in fear because she was fully aware of the danger. I pushed him back, got in his face, and told him to back off. The crowd was stunned. I told him I was a United States citizen and that if he tried anything the entire United States military would come for him and his family. (Dramatic I know but I was only 16.) I got this idea from something about the US protecting it's citizens abroad in the news. I didn't realize it at the time but these words saved me and my cousin too and he backed off. I now realize it could have gone either way. However, I was unable to go anywhere or be home alone without someone else for protection for the remainder of my time there. I haven't been back since, not because of this but other reasons.
Also, depending on where this young lady is from, her culture, and how her parents think, they may not protect her if she goes to them. I don't know her parents or her but I do know that in many situations honor killings and other retributions are often carried out by the family, even the parents themselves.
Wolf, don't think I'm trying to argue with you because I'm not. I know posts can sometimes be read in different ways and in no way was this written in anger or is it intended to be taken that way. I'm just expressing my point of view to the best of my ability. I think we are actually in agreement, at least for the most part.
