date rape confusion (Page 1)

I am sorry for what you may have gone through.

Since you don't remember, there could be a completely different explanation for these things. A spill of some sort. You could have fallen and been bruised.

Have you talked with people who were with you on this particular night?

Yes and well this is what I have been able to work out so far... Its been a bit of an obsession for me so apologise about this following rant.

I was out on a work night out in a closed off section upstairs for Karaoke and its own bar. I told my friends I was going out for a ear but was not seen again. When I left them I was drunk but compus mentus, dancing and laughing along with everyone else. (thats the last I remember as well).

Roughly by what I can determine about an hour or so later two of my friends from outside of work were called to come and collect me by the bouncers. When they arrived I was on my own out side the bar being violently sick. I did not know who I was, where I was or who they were, they were only able to work that out once I had regained the ability to speak. As they were getting me home when moving I was manageable but each time we stood still I would pass out and it took them a good 10 min to get me going again. Apparently they dropped me heavily on my head a couple of times as well. Bless them they were very sorry even though they had nothing to do with the state I was in.

In the morning I woke up and felt very very strange indeed kind of out of body. Not like a typical hang over but then if this is really just a mega pissed night I guess wouldn't have been a typical hang over. I noticed that my top had been torn around the neck and stretch out of shape. I had bruises on both arms, a large scratch down my back and a couple of smaller scratches going right down my breast and the crap I mentioned before. I also had bruises on my left inner thigh and on my hip/ pelvis type region.

One of my friends noticed the scratch on my back and I showed him one of the bruises on my arm and he was spooked but thought they might have caused it when trying to get me home.

I called the bouncers; I wanted to know how they found me. They said that they found me in the toilets, I was in there with two people and I was unconscious it took them about 10 min to revive me and then took me outside to keep an eye on me until the people they called arrived to collect me for about 20 min. (Leaving me about 30 min or so unaccounted for)

He also thought he may have caused the bruises lifting me up but again I did not explain where they were on my body. I asked about CCTV but he said there would not be any because of the areas I was in. Grrrr!!!! He could not provide me with a description of the people I was with either only that they said that it was ok they worked with me. (It was about 2 weeks later so didn't push it)

So I started to ask all the girls in work, I told them I was just trying to fill in the blank time and I had flash backs of being in the toilets. None of them knew what I was talking about and it seemed it was going to be hopeless in working it out.

Then my work friend said that she remembered: When she went to the toilets after I had disappeared she was not allowed in by the bouncers as there was someone ill and there were two lads in there already so there was no room for anyone else. Guessing now but would make sense it was me.

Questions:
1. How was my top torn?
2. How did I get all the bruises on my body and scratch right across my breast not just the top?
3. Why did the bouncer not mention the people who were with me in the toilets were male?
4. What on earth was I doing with 2 men in the girl's toilets?
5. If these people worked with me, why didn't they get one of my girly friends to come and look after me?
6. If they worked with me why did they just leave me on my own, they would have had no idea if my friends had collected me or not?
7. Why have they said nothing about it since even to mock the state I was in or to check I was ok?
8. What was this crap over my body in the morning?

It is obvious in the office that something happened as I have been signed off work with stress as this is really really effecting me. I have lost over 2 stone in weight I cannot face going out, it's changing my personality and it is doing my head in which is totally stupid because I don't really know anything happened so feel like a bit of a freak to me honest.

I am very very scared to continue working it out but I am driven by it. These are people I work with and I have a very respectable job so in order for me to continue I need to ask the lads, and even some very big bosses if they know anything.

How on earth do I do this without making any of them feel like they are being accused?

So I need more confidence in what I know, I am having flash backs but I don't know if it is just my imagination. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol I just read it... I went outside for a cigarette not a not a human, think that was auto correct for a slang I used.

I think you should contact the police about this. The bouncer said the two people worked with you, but that may have just been what they said. These people could be victimizing other women in the area and they need to know that something happened so they can investigate. Maybe they can get at least a vague description from the bouncer. There also might be video of you talking to someone that you don't remember or of someone putting something in your drink. It might even be the bartender, for all you know. Even though it's too late to get an exam or a blood test to test for what you may have been drugged with, you can still give a statement. It might help you feel less helpless, at the very least.

If you still have the clothes you were wearing (unwashed, hopefully), give them to the police to test for DNA.

I would also recommend you see a counselor or go to a support group. Right now, you feel alone and don't know exactly what happened and there are other women out there who have been through this, too. You are not a freak and what happened wasn't your fault. No one asks to be raped.

If you are scared to go out, take a self-defense class and carry pepper spray (if it's legal where you live). If you are afraid to be alone, get a dog and an alarm system. The main thing you need to do is get your power back and don't isolate yourself. Reach out to your friends and family. There are also professionals and organizations out there who can help you. You don't have to go through this alone. You may never have all your questions answered, but that doesn't mean that this has to control you for the rest of your life.

Good luck with everything.

Thank you for not thinking I am over reacting!! It is hard to commit to something so serious when I can't say anything with complete certainty. It is all soo confusing!

I am very scared to go to the police because it would mean bringing them into my place of work, which is just too scary for words. I am on a management fast track in the world of finance that is a male dominated world and I am worried that if I bring this into work it will impact upon my future but to report it or try and work it out anymore I have to do this. Too scared!!

As a result I STUPIDLY threw away my clothes about a month ago, I didn't want to admit it was real and I thought if I got rid of them it would mean I would have to give it up and I wouldn't have to face it. I think this is why I am so obsessed about working it out to make up for my complete lapse in judgement.

Do you think it is not too late to report it then? Even if I have nothing to support my story??

I am such a fool I know, I mean what plonker throws away the only evidence they have.

I do still have the cardigan that I was wearing on top of my top and the shoes I had on� do you think it could have made it through that many layers to my cardigan?

I like the idea of self-defence, and getting empowered!! I don't know how I could even get hold of a pepper spray, or if it is legal? Any chance do you know where I could find this information? I have to walk home every day from work so that would definitely help. At the moment I just keep jumping and reacting to everything and anything I must look like a right fool if anyone is watching me.

Thank you for your advise, I am so glad I wrote it on the Q & A now.!!

If the person really does work with you (which for some reason I doubt because why would they tell the truth to the bouncer if they really were the perpetrators--that would be dumb), they could do this to someone else. Yes, since there is no evidence left really, probably nothing will come of it. But they could always check the surveillance at the bar where there was some and at least fill out a report so it's on record in case this happens to someone else either at your work or at that bar. They might say there is nothing they can do at this point, unfortunately. Don't blame yourself for that. You were confused and unsure of what really happened and no one can blame you for wanting to just forget about the whole thing--even though it's also understandable why you couldn't.

The police would probably be able to tell you if pepper spray is legal or not. Or a internet search. I'm guessing from your use of slang for cigarette that you are from the UK? They can be pretty strict about that stuff. If you can't carry pepper spray, a whistle on your keychain would be good, too. The cops might also be able to tell you where you can take a self-defense class. You could do an internet search for women's self defense classes, or you could take kick boxing or a marshal art's class. The police or an internet search can also point you to a support group or women's center where you can talk to someone.

Also, as my mom (who is a former police officer) taught me, be aware of your surroundings, whether out on the street or in a bar. Look up, glance around casually, keep one hand on your purse, look people in the eye, be confident (or fake it). People are much more likely to victimize people who aren't paying attention and who look like they don't belong there. If you're in a bar, stay with a friend and keep an eye on your drink (even if you go to the bathroom--take it with you). Say hi and smile at the bartender, chat a bit (if you can) and give him a tip, this will make him more likely to say something if he happens to see something wrong. It won't be easy at first, but once you feel more empowered through the self-defense, it will be much easier.

One more thing: stop blaming yourself for what happened and for what you did after. Focus on getting yourself well and moving forward. I can tell just by your writing that you are a strong person and you can get through this.

"3. Why did the bouncer not mention the people who were with me in the toilets were male?
4. What on earth was I doing with 2 men in the girl's toilets?"

MyrahU, They were probably called by another woman (their girl friends?) to help get you up when she discovered you. If these men wanted to rape you, there are much 'safer' places for them than in the women's toilets.

Take care!

Islington
It's no challenge to get scratches and bruises when you're so drunk you don't remember what you were doing. Strange dried substances can be vomited on yourself or spilled or applied to your body in a wide number of fashions when you're piss drunk. Peculiar behavior or answers that don't add up are the norm when you drink to the point of blacking out in an establishment full of other people who are drinking. Being taken advantage of and violated is certainly one possible scenario amount hundreds but the real cause for concern and one you don't appear to be addressing is that you got so utterly destroyed in a public place that you can't account for what happened to you. Regardless of how your friends party that's so unbelievably serious in terms of your health. Regardless of what you end up doing about your worries that you were date raped, speak to an addiction specialist about this.

Susan, why did you address your comments to me? I'm not the one this happened to. But I will say that if the guys in the bathroom with her were just trying to help her, they should have called someone else (like someone who worked there) instead of going in themselves. Also, wouldn't their girlfriends have come back in with them, in that case?

Wolf, I do agree that if she does have a drinking problem she should seek help, but just from her account, I don't think we can determine if she was just drunk enough to black out and become violently ill or if she was actually drugged by someone. Also, the placement of the bruises and the fact that the "substance" was on her bare skin, not on her clothes.

Don't get me wrong, blacking out from drinking is a serious neurological event and does signal that a person does have a problem with alcohol, especially if it continues to happen. I'm just saying that her symptoms are also consistent with being drugged. Only she knows if what happened could have possibly been from just drinking way too much and if that is a problem that needs to be addressed. No doubt drinking contributed to what happened, as it does for a lot of women who are raped, but that doesn't mean that it should be dismissed because of that.

She could have been drugged or had an allergic reaction or or a medication reaction or low blood pressure or been struck by a footpad from behind. There are any number of ways a person can loose their memory of events. However since we don't know what happened usually the simplest answer the the correct one. She was out drinking with friends, blacked out and woke with no memory of events. A nefarious plot isn't required to make that scenario makes sense. I'm not sure why it would be relevant that the substance was not on her clothes. Given her account we have no idea which clothes she was wearing, if any when, the stuff got on her. Trying to envision a scenario that fills the events of that night without evidence doesn't help Islington in any way. What she needs is actual information about what happened and we can't provide that.

If the substance wasn't on her clothes, but was on her skin under her clothes, how is that not relevant? Sounds like her shirt was off. If she passed out, she couldn't take off her own shirt. Also, I can see why she would have bruises on her arms or back, but between her legs and on her pelvis? That's a bit more suspicious. Don't you think? If it were just a weird substance on her shirt and a few bruises on her arms, that would be one thing.

Unfortunately, in this situation, she's never going to know for sure what happened. But she feels alone and she's scared. I don't think that treating her like a drunk is helping her. Maybe I'm too quick to think that she is a victim, but to me, the evidence is pretty suspicious. I also think that having an allergic reaction is less-likely than getting drugged while alone at a bar. It's just too bad, regardless of what happened, that she wasn't taken to the hospital when she was so sick and couldn't even recognize anyone. Then she could have gotten the proper care she obviously needed.

Wolf, I respect your opinion about this, as I do on most things. I just think you're being a bit hard on her without knowing her drinking habits or considering the suspicious nature of the circumstances.

If you have never gotten a substances on your skin that you can't identify, If you have never removed your clothing, if you have never gotten bruises on your legs or pelvis except when you were sexually assaulted then absolutely, absolutely these would be scenarios where you should see this as evidence that implies sexual assualt has occurred. I've only been sexually assaulted twice in my life, neither time left a residue on my skin, neither bruised me, I lost clothing in one case but not the other. However I routinely get strange substances on my skin, even through my clothing. I take off my clothes constantly, sometimes even in mixed company and get bruises pretty much every time I drink too much, in addition to mysterious injurlies throughout my life. There's plenty here that's suspicious but no reason for a specific suspicion and certainly not to assume the worst.

There is something that is known with evidence and witnesses. Something that can be proven. That is that Islington put herself in a compromised state and made an error in judgement. I'm not saying that this is a character fault. I'm saying that it explains much of her suspicious circumstances in and of itself and that it points to a much more destructive issue than sexual assault. The fact that she seems rather casual about how things developed into amnesia and chaos in her post and is more concerned about establishing possibly outside responsibility for this event is an immediate red flag for me about how serious this seems is.

Hello Guys,

Thank you very much for your replies it has been very helpful to see both points of view on the event. I have now been to the GP and it appears that I am suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and am currently undergoing the diagnostic process and hopefully receive help to get back to normal.

WOLF you are quite right that I have had a chaotic obsession with working it out, I admit partially to enable myself with the defence of proportioning blame for what I am going through or to have the torment I am putting myself through ended. The whole not knowing has quite frankly driven me insane especially as all the facts lead back to it, I am running out of simple explanations.

I would say I have been primarily obsessed with finding the simplest explanation but the harder I look the more suspicious the whole event has become. It is now well known in my office that something happened that night, admittedly they don't know exactly what but no one has come forward to say it was them in the loo's and this question has been asked. So it is looking more and more likely that it was two strangers who just said they worked with me. We were in a closed off VIP section where the general flow of people were not allowed, the people from my work were the vast majority of the people there. Bare in mind this was a works affair I was dressed smartly not smutey and I never take my clothes off on a night out I am quite conservative in nature.

I am completely confused how I can got from being very happy, giggly, talkative, dancing and enjoying myself to (bare in mind missing and not drinking at the bar) an hour or so later be such a state that I was that night. When I have gotten too drunk in the past I start with slurring my words, falling over people, dropping drinks people around would have seen this. Everyone has said that I was drunk but not disgustingly shameful drunk which is what I would have been if I had drunken myself into that type of stupor.

My GP believes that the amnesia and my difficulty interpreting the event are typical to my illness and that with treatment I will be able to manage this.

I do not have a drinking problem, yes I drank a fair amount but nothing that I have not managed to enjoy and wake up without a hangover for in the past.

I have been reading up on this Post Traumatic Stress thing and at least now I am feeling less like a freak, it is really weird how I have developed this ability to look at myself from outside in and can see everything that I am reading is what I have become. What is good though I think.. Is that because I can see what I am doing it is helping me to deal with this far more objectively. The problem is just turning the sanity back into inside me not just outside... does that make sense???

I don't think I am ever going to find out what actually happened and I have to come to terms with that which I fear is definitely easier said that to be done. I am very very scared, freaked out, worried, tired, lonely, confused, ashamed, embarrassed, and extremely angry to the point I fear actually talking to anyone. I am having flash backs, nightmares, panic attacks and depressed to a very scary level. I don�t know what my brain is doing but it needs to stop!!

I imagine that for someone who has experienced an attack twice for which I cannot imagine how horrific that must have been to deal with, you would find what I am experiencing very confusing especially as I have no firm facts or memory and I am sorry!! I am bewildered by what really should not be this devastating; I cannot give you any answers for that.

Again thank for all your comments it genuinely helpful.

My experiences are very different than yours. I was aware, I can process the facts and there was support for me. You can't be sure of what happened. I guess my ultimate advice to you is to accept the unknown. You can't hope to process an event you don't understand or have any handhold on. Don't let your imagination make things more traumatic for you than they already are. For all the facts you overdid things on a wild night out and got sick. Dealing with that is troublesome enough. Until someone comes forward with different information or until you have a memory of something else, just leave that night there.

I'm confused about one thing, the doctor said that some of the blackout could have been from PTSD? Or the incident caused your PTSD?

Basically I am having flashbacks and vivid images of the night and I am struggling to interpret fact from imagination in relation to that. None of it is clear and some of it is more feelings and body sensations than actual pictures so to speak. Although I have been fairly fluent in expressing myself on here talking turned out to be a very different affair. My GP said that she thinks some of the confusion will become clear once I start to address the issue in therapy, as this is a symptom of PTSD. In terms of the blackout she did not say anything about that, or made any comment on if she thought I was drugged or not. In fact she has not said a lot, basically asked lots and lots of questions.

The same thing happened me back in February my friend said she had never seen me s drunk in all my life and I was missing for and hour and half in the club and when she found me I couldnt even talk. I had a huge bruise on my inner thigh that i have no recolection of how I got and even more scarier was that it was like the shape of fingers I still have a mark from the bruise 3 months later I just said if I wasnt pregnant it never happened but I cannot remember a thing from while i was missing having some flashbacks of anything would be fine but a complete blank of the time I was missing is quiet scary I should be able to forget about this but the fact that there is still a bruise on my leg cant be a good thing

I am sorry to hear of your bad experience, I have been having councelling at a rape crisis centre which took my doctors ages to persuade me to visit. I felt guilty for some reason to use facilities for rape victims. They have been very good and advised that in their experience it can actually be more difficult to overcome an experience like this when there is a lack of memory. It blocks the normal healing process!! This has had a huge impact on my life, are you finding yourself starting to get stuck from moving on? Are you getting any support?

To be honest I have blanked it out by just focusing on college but now my mind is wandering back to it. Do you think I got attacked? Its not right that I still have a mark on my leg that is not a normal bruise or place to get one. I also looked up the signs that I was drugged and the being blank for that hour and a half seems to add up and how sick I was the next day and I woke up the next morning with an awful feeling its just scary to come to terms with the fact that this may have happened as you know yourself I dont think I want to believe it.