Join Our Community!
Share
Debate Forums > General Debate Forum > Creationist vs. Evolution
User Profile
Q: Creationist vs. Evolution
asked by: ServiceU on June 6th, 2009
Supporter
Creation vs. Evolution - A Question of Origins
How did we get here? Were we created or did we evolve randomly? Are we the product of purposeful intelligence or cosmic accidents?
is the earth 4.5 billion years old, or 6000 years old which some christians believe?
how do you feel if you have kids in school that learn about evolution if you dont believe in it.
Give your opinion and please be respectful to one another.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Replies(18)
User Profile
concernedn
replied on June 7th, 2009
Experienced User
Re: Creationist vs. Evolution
ServiceU wrote:
Creation vs. Evolution - A Question of Origins
How did we get here? Were we created or did we evolve randomly? Are we the product of purposeful intelligence or cosmic accidents?
is the earth 4.5 billion years old, or 6000 years old which some christians believe?
how do you feel if you have kids in school that learn about evolution if you dont believe in it.
Give your opinion and please be respectful to one another.


Alright, if I make an attempt to answer this question, it will get way too long since there are plenty of scientific aspects involved. For the moment, I will just ask you to do one thing. Think about the vastness of the universe. In 1999 the Hubble Space Telescope estimated that there were 125 billion galaxies in the universe. Let's just imagine the size of the earth. The earth is not even a grain of sand in a large desert, when it's compared with the size of the universe. Yet the human eye is unable to realistically imagine the size of the earth which itself is not even a minuscule entity! Think about the distance between the tiny earth and the nearest star (sun). Please don't be deceived when I say sun is the nearest star. Do you know how far the so called 'nearest' star is? Not much. Only (!) 149.6 million kilometer!!! If I put all the zeros in the number becomes 149600000km. Ya that's how far it is and yet it is the nearest star! What is the maximum distance you can imagine in your mind? Is it anywhere close to 149600000km?

Let's think about the closest star system which is called the Alpha Centauri. The so called "closest star system" is not so close from a human point of view. Alpha Centauri is about 4.37 light years away from the sun. 4.37 light years sound to be a small number. Yes, it's as small as (4.37 * 9.461 * 1000000000000) km !!!!
I don't want to find the actual number because it's so small. I can cross it in 1 minute!!

We have talked about only one star (sun) and the nearest star system (Alpha Centauri) from out solar system. What about the fact the universe contains billions of galaxies and each galaxy contains billions of stars. Yes, it's too large for the human mind to comprehend. The sun is a huge fire ball and there are billions of such fire balls (stars) floating in the billions of galaxies. The vastness of space is simply incredible. How can such a wonderful creation come on its own?

What about the order of the heavenly bodies? The way every cosmic object has been ordered or placed in the vastness of space is itself a miracle. Every planet in the universe, irrespective of its size, is an extremely important part of a larger order. Not even one of their positions in space or any of their movements is random. The innumerable factors influencing the balances in the universe is vital, a change in the position of just one planet is enough to bring an absolute chaos. But these balances are never upset. The universe continues on, in its perfect order, with no problems. How is that possible if Somebody did not created a perfect mathematical miracle when designing the universe. All of this is a result of a miracle and the Designer of this mathematical miracle is none but GOD, the BEST DESIGNER of all designers.

Finally, there are numerous scientific facts that the universe was created and it could not have come on its own. How could the vastness of space, the cosmic object, and the perfect mathematical design of it could have come on its own? That's too good a thing to believe. It could not have come on its own and it was created by the Supreme Lord. He it is Who created the heavens and the earth, men and women, and placed pure love in their heart for each other! How Great is God!

A note to everyone: Whatever I have written here reflects my personal opinion ONLY and they are based on certain scientific facts only. I haven't made these numbers from my own. There could be certain calculation mistakes and I apologize in advance for that. As a matter of fact I DON'T claim I am right and I am NOT forcing anything on anyone. I have no problem if any of you continue to believe in evolution. Everyone has the absolute freedom to believe what he/she wants to. I expect none of you will get into an argument with me which is destructive because I am just sharing my opinion with you.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
worrywart01
replied on June 9th, 2009
Extremely eHealthy
I believe God created the earth...and God created all beings which inhabit the earth period...yes there are factors from the environment which contribute to change but the point is WHERE did all these beings come from...they dont just appear...if someone would like to argue that we came from monkeys then fine but my next question would be where did the monkeys come from?
Did you find this post useful?
|
Users who thank worrywart01 for this post: ServiceU 
User Profile
concernedn
replied on June 10th, 2009
Experienced User
Creation
worrywart01 wrote:
I believe God created the earth...and God created all beings which inhabit the earth period...yes there are factors from the environment which contribute to change but the point is WHERE did all these beings come from...they dont just appear...if someone would like to argue that we came from monkeys then fine but my next question would be where did the monkeys come from?


That's the point, where did the first creation come from? That means something was created out of nothing. Now as a personal belief of mine I would say only God can create something out of nothing. It can be proven that the universe was created and if you believe God created the universe then you may also believe if He can create such a vast universe, He can also create something out of nothing. I mean that's why He is God. We can't create something out out of nothing. Can We?...............Rolling Eyes
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
GreyWolf
replied on July 9th, 2009
Experienced User
Evolution
I have no concept of a creator, because then my next question would most likely be "But where did the creator come from?" !

I went to a Christian primary school, however I was never religious and nor were my
parents, I've always believed in evolution. My mum is pagan and my dad is atheist, so as a child at a Christian school, I was always I was in the middle of conflicting views. My parents at home teaching me about Darwin and the Big Bang and Steven Hawking. My school teaching about intelligent design and creation. I'm naturally a very curious person. Why did God create suffering? If free will gave us the power to do immense evil and harm to each other, then why did God give us it? However I was always told at school "That's just the way things are, never question God".
I never made a conscious decision NOT to believe in God, I just never really did.

I am atheist (but not AN atheist), and recognise the powers of nature themselves as our creator, and science as revealing the workings of the Universe. It's subtly different to Atheism. I have always been very into nature since I was very small. I was fascinated by the sheer beauty and awesomeness of the Earth and Universe, and always felt a sense of reverence towards them. My dad would show me the planets, stars and sun-spots through a telescope, and the pictures from Hubble, and my mum would teach me about animals and wildlife. I wasn't revering them because of what created them, I was revering them for what they WERE. I discovered scientific pantheism a few years ago when I stumbled across a website by mistake, and although I won't refer to my beliefs by any particular name, I felt like I identified with them.

I do not believe there is anyone judging us or enforcing rules as to how I live my life and what I believe. As long as no-one is harmed, and no-one interferes in the free-will and privacy of others.

So to cut a long story short I believe in evolution and the big bang. We evolved from apes, which evolved from other primates, so-on-and-so-forth, back to the first life-forms which were created when specific chemicals hapened to combine in a winning combination creating the first DNA.

I do believe however that science will never ever reveal the entire truth about the Universe, there will always be some things we will never know. That's how things are meant to be, and to me it is part of the amazing beauty of the Universe. The Universe is huge and mysterious but that brings me comfort.

Sorry for the life-story!
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
ServiceU
replied on July 9th, 2009
Supporter
greywolf,
i really enjoyed reading your story. i would love to hear everyone's view point on this topic.
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
concernedn
replied on July 15th, 2009
Experienced User
The Miraculous Universe!
To GreyWolf:

You wrote:

"I have no concept of a creator, because then my next question would most likely be "But where did the creator come from?" !"

Alright, I like the way you have written your post and that"s why I feel interested to make an honest effort to answer your questions. In my opinion, the definition of God is He is Uncreated. Nothing created Him but He created the wonderful heavens and the earth. He was there before time and He will always be there.

You wrote:

"I went to a Christian primary school, however I was never religious and nor were my parents, I've always believed in evolution. My mum is pagan and my dad is atheist, so as a child at a Christian school, I was always I was in the middle of conflicting views. My parents at home teaching me about Darwin and the Big Bang and Steven Hawking. My school teaching about intelligent design and creation. I'm naturally a very curious person. Why did God create suffering? If free will gave us the power to do immense evil and harm to each other, then why did God give us it? However I was always told at school "That's just the way things are, never question God".
I never made a conscious decision NOT to believe in God, I just never really did."

Nobody becomes religious by going in a religious school NOR is God confined to a place of worship. What you feel from the bottom of you heart reflects your faith. God's Majesty is INFINITELY beyond our imagination. Darwin's theory is a "theory" NOT a "proven scientific fact". As far as Big Bang is concerned it conforms to my religion. By saying that I am NOT inviting you to my religion NOR do I claim my religion is the right one. God Himself guides people and if you deserve to be guided He will guide you. God created suffering because this life is a test for the after life. In my opinion, the more faith you have in you, the more difficult sufferings you may have to face in this life so that God can see how strong you faith is. A faithful person will still have faith in God and wait for His Mercy whereas a not so faithful person may start blaming God. He gave us free will because it's the necessary prerequisite for the test. If you don't have the free will then it's not a test. Before sitting for an exam, you have the free will to study or not. If you want to do well you will study and if you don't want you won't. I don't believe in blind faith nor do I like the idea of not questioning God. However, your objective should be to know God not necessarily to reject Him. If you want to reject something you can reject something as true as a mathematical identity but if you are a blind follower you may accept something very wrong as well.

You wrote:

"I am atheist (but not AN atheist), and recognise the powers of nature themselves as our creator, and science as revealing the workings of the Universe. It's subtly different to Atheism. I have always been very into nature since I was very small. I was fascinated by the sheer beauty and awesomeness of the Earth and Universe, and always felt a sense of reverence towards them. My dad would show me the planets, stars and sun-spots through a telescope, and the pictures from Hubble, and my mum would teach me about animals and wildlife. I wasn't revering them because of what created them, I was revering them for what they WERE. I discovered scientific pantheism a few years ago when I stumbled across a website by mistake, and although I won't refer to my beliefs by any particular name, I felt like I identified with them."

Whether you want to be "atheist", "an atheist", or belong to a religious community is your choice. God will show you His signs; it's up to you to accept/reject them. The fact that you are fascinated by the awesomeness of the universe tells a great deal about you. Not a lot of people think about the beautiful vastness of space. It's important to realize the earth is not even a minuscule entity as compared to the incredibly giant universe and we are even lesser an entity. You have already taken a huge step towards believing in God, in my opinion. The wonderful constellations and the mansion of the stars in will tell you a lot more about God.

You wrote:

"I do not believe there is anyone judging us or enforcing rules as to how I live my life and what I believe. As long as no-one is harmed, and no-one interferes in the free-will and privacy of others."

In general, there is no force in religious matters but you have to follow certain rules and regulations in the country you are living to maintain peace and harmony.

You wrote:

"So to cut a long story short I believe in evolution and the big bang. We evolved from apes, which evolved from other primates, so-on-and-so-forth, back to the first life-forms which were created when specific chemicals hapened to combine in a winning combination creating the first DNA."

As I said before, Darwin's Theory is a theory not an established scientific fact. I also believe in Big Bang (see Quran 21:30).

You wrote:

"I do believe however that science will never ever reveal the entire truth about the Universe, there will always be some things we will never know. That's how things are meant to be, and to me it is part of the amazing beauty of the Universe. The Universe is huge and mysterious but that brings me comfort."

I also think the same!

You wrote:

"Sorry for the life-story!"

I like reading your story and that's why I have written such a long post!

Finally, I am NOT inviting you to my religion NOR am I claiming my religion is right. I am NOT the one who knows everything NOR do I wish to be the one who knows too much. I have just made an honest effort to answer you and judge my mistakes with kindness because I am not infallible. I believe you can go to heaven irrespective of you are a Muslim/Christian/Jew because God knows best who has Him in his heart. I love people of all religions. You will be in my prayers.

God bless you!

Glory be to God, The Lord of the Worlds!
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
marvel
replied on July 17th, 2009
Supporter
I take issue with the assertion that God created the universe "because something so huge simply couldn't have developed on its own." Those same assertions are often coupled with descriptions of the universe's immensities and complexities. The amount of time alone that existence itself has... well, existed, is totally unconceivable.

On the same token, I take issue with the argument that the universe has developed over exponentiated millenia. Not because I think the idea of a naturally occurring universe is ludicrious, but because we, as human beings who have only existed for a few hundred thousand years, do not have the capacity to understand how it came to be. We can experiment and hypothesize, but to arrive at a definite conclusion, with our limited knowledge of what's really out there, is not possible.

The truth is none of us know one way or the other. We can, however, believe one way or the other. I believe the universe wasn't created.

It's so funny because we all 'believe', but so many argue and do such damage over attempting to prove it.

I just stand back in awe.... whether or not it was created, it's still just as impressive! To be honest, I don't even care if it was created or if it developed. I'm awestruck and humbled I get to be a part of it.
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
Phenicks
replied on July 17th, 2009
Experienced User
Re: Evolution
GreyWolf wrote:
I have no concept of a creator, because then my next question would most likely be "But where did the creator come from?" !

I went to a Christian primary school, however I was never religious and nor were my
parents, I've always believed in evolution. My mum is pagan and my dad is atheist, so as a child at a Christian school, I was always I was in the middle of conflicting views.


What was the point of going to a Christian school where you would be required to at minimum complete a class about that religion with that background?
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
ServiceU
replied on July 17th, 2009
Supporter
concerend, my old friend i think you are really intelligent.
phenicks,
i really think some upper middle class people dont believe in public school so they put their kids in those schools.
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
GreyWolf
replied on July 18th, 2009
Experienced User
Re: Evolution
Phenicks wrote:
GreyWolf wrote:
I have no concept of a creator, because then my next question would most likely be "But where did the creator come from?" !

I went to a Christian primary school, however I was never religious and nor were my
parents, I've always believed in evolution. My mum is pagan and my dad is atheist, so as a child at a Christian school, I was always I was in the middle of conflicting views.


What was the point of going to a Christian school where you would be required to at minimum complete a class about that religion with that background?


Because it was the only public primary school in my local area. But yes they did place emphasis on God and Jesus.
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
ServiceU
replied on July 18th, 2009
Supporter
marvel,
i feel like you i am shocked and awe but nature. i live in the sunshine state for two years and i watch pelicans, turtles, turkeys, exotic colored birds, lizards, snakes just by being outside. they even have these locust or grasshoppers that has black spots on their backs and and the color of a bumble bee towards their heads. this creature looks very scary.
watching a tornato far away!
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
Phenicks
replied on July 18th, 2009
Experienced User
Re: Evolution
GreyWolf wrote:


Because it was the only public primary school in my local area. But yes they did place emphasis on God and Jesus.


Well that sucks! Many Christian schools are private so it was kind of confusing n why you'd be going to a Christian school. I went to one for University and there actually students who protested having to take a religious class, or the presence of crucufix or other religious decoration in the class room.
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
calluna
replied on September 25th, 2009
Experienced User
'Were we created or did we evolve randomly?'

Most people probably believe that we were created 'randomly'.
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
concernedn
replied on September 25th, 2009
Experienced User
I believe we were CREATED by an awesome miracle. The great thing about God is ONLY He can create something out of nothing but we need SOMETHING to make another thing. We cannot create something out of nothing.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
woops
replied on September 27th, 2009
Experienced User
Wanna know where everything ultimately came from?

No where, it just happened and will never be explained, it can't be explained, I don't just mean this awful world though, the very very beginning, the first things that ever existed, setting off a chain of events, it just popped up with no cause, magically you might say. thats where everything ultimately came from, doesn't make any sense you say? Well, no, it doesn't, how could it? But thats what happened.

One way our world was created by conscious beings, if they weren't created by anyone they came from nowhere, if our world wasn't created it sprang up spontaneously and quite unexpainably. Every last thing in existence, and I don't just mean our world originates from no where.

Created by something that was created by nothing, to put it simply it just happened, and doesn't make any sense really.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
worrywart01
replied on November 17th, 2009
Extremely eHealthy
I dont think that things "just happened"..it was created that way by God...we didn't just miraculously appear on an earth that is the PERFECT distance from the sun so that we dont freeze or fry..that just doesn't happen...it was created that way..by someone who knows what they're doing
Did you find this post useful?
|
User Profile
calluna
replied on November 17th, 2009
Experienced User
There is only one reason to believe the Bible, and that is because the news that Jesus died for you convicts us all of sin.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
woops
replied on November 18th, 2009
Experienced User
Oh c'mon, the perfect distance from the sun, it isn't the perfect distance at all, people freeze and yes fry all of the time because it is either to cold or to hot.

You should probably know that.

another point about the original question, created or not. Think a little about what either of those would mean, it helps even if you don't have proof or knowledge of it being created or not to go over the possibilities.

If created, and this dude did indeed know what he was doing, well then, he would be an insane murderer of sorts, an infatuated with irony torturer.

I think that we should all hope that it wasn't created, if you know what that would mean.

If it wasn't created, well, thats actually just as bad, everything just appeared out of nowhere and insanity ensued, and a bunch of mutant hellspawn came out of the soup and started eating eachother and fighting eachother, programmed with a mad instinct and desire to endlessly reproduce and rule. And did I mention that it's insane.

I think that we should all hope that it wasn't not created, if you know what that would mean.

Both of these beliefs are quite awful situations, and to be proud of either would be crazy and a little bit stoopid.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Quick Reply
Search