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Certain HIV positive, but negative tests (Page 68)

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May 1st, 2013
Extremely eHealthy
Here's a NY Times article referencing Louis Mansky's work with Azacytidine (referenced below as 5-AZC) - this is the medication that we need.

Best wishes.

Using a Virus’s Knack for Mutating to Wipe It Out

By CARL ZIMMER
Published: January 4, 2010

Evolution is a virus’s secret weapon. The virus can rapidly slip on new disguises to evade our immune systems, and it can become resistant to antiviral drugs.

But some scientists are turning the virus’s secret weapon against it. They hope to cure infections by forcing viruses to evolve their way to extinction.

Viruses can evolve because of the mistakes they make when they replicate. All living things can mutate, but viruses are especially prone to these genetic errors. In fact, some species of viruses mutate hundreds of thousands of times faster than we do.

Many of the mutations that strike new viruses are fatal. Others only slow down their growth, and still others have no effect at all. A few mutations are beneficial, and the viruses that inherit those good mutations can swiftly dominate a viral population.

Viruses depend on this rapid evolution to infect a host successfully. Poliovirus, for example, enters the body in the gut and then moves into the bloodstream, muscles and, in a small fraction of cases, the nervous system.

Each time the virus moves into a new kind of tissue, natural selection favors those best suited to growing there. “The virus needs to have this genetic flexibility to adapt to its environments,” said Raul Andino, a virologist at the University of California, San Francisco.

But if a virus’s rate of mutation gets too high, mathematical studies suggest, it will suffer. “Most mutations are bad,” said Claus O. Wilke, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Texas. “And so by increasing the amount of mutations, you can decrease the number of good offspring.”

The defective offspring reproduce slower than their ancestors. After enough mutations pile up, the viruses can no longer replace their numbers. The entire population vanishes.

If increasing mutation rates can wipe out viruses, does that mean a mutation-increasing drug could cure a case of the flu? “People have thought about this idea for many years,” said Louis M. Mansky, a virologist at the University of Minnesota.

A decade ago, scientists began running experiments that suggested the idea just might work. In one study, Dr. Lawrence A. Loeb, a University of Washington geneticist, and his colleagues eradicated H.I.V. in vitro by applying a mutation-increasing drug to infected cells. Reporting their results, Dr. Loeb’s group dubbed this kind of attack “lethal mutagenesis.”

Lethal mutagenesis appealed to many scientists at first, because it seemed to be a radically new way to fight viruses. But 10 years after its initial successes, lethal mutagenesis has not made its way to the drug store. Scientists have had to grapple with difficult questions about whether lethal mutagenesis can be safe and effective.

“That’s a common thing in biomedical research,” Dr. Mansky said. “People get ideas, but then there are roadblocks and the excitement dies down.”

One roadblock was the fact that many of the drugs scientists used to cause lethal mutagenesis were too toxic to give to patients. And there was also something inherently risky about the very idea of lethal mutagenesis. After all, a drug that speeds up mutations in a virus might also speed up the mutations in its host cell. As a result, lethal mutagenesis could conceivably raise the risk of cancer.

Another problem with lethal mutagenesis is that viruses may be able to evolve resistance to it. Some studies suggest that viruses can evolve so that mutation-increasing drugs cannot interfere with them.

Dr. Andino and his colleagues have discovered another kind of resistance in polioviruses: they become more careful. These resistant strains have a lower mutation rate because their enzymes make fewer mistakes as they build new genes. “The enzymes take more time at each step,” he said.

A new paper to be published in the journal Genetics shows just how mysterious lethal mutagenesis remains. Researchers at the University of Texas tried to use lethal mutagenesis to kill off a virus called T7, which infects only E. coli. The scientists understand T7 very well thanks to two decades of careful research on the virus. They were able to make precise predictions about the effects of a mutation-increasing drug.

But T7 did not wither away as they had predicted. After evolving for 200 generations in the presence of the drug, the viruses ended up replicating 90 percent faster than their ancestors.

James Bull, a co-author of the new study, thinks it shows how unexpected virus evolution can be under lethal mutagenesis. Whether that evolution could pose a risk to patients is an open question. “I’m on the fence on whether that really is a problem,” Dr. Bull said. “But I think it’s worth looking at.”

Despite these challenges, a number of researchers see reason for optimism about lethal mutagenesis. Dr. Mansky, for example, has been inspired by studies in the last few years that revealed how our own bodies use a natural kind of lethal mutagenesis. People produce proteins, known by the acronym Apobec, that fight off H.I.V. infections. They do so by adding mutations to the viruses as they replicate.

“To me that was important,” Dr. Mansky said. “It said that cells have evolved a mechanism for fending off viruses with lethal mutagenesis.”

In recent years Dr. Mansky has been seeking to overcome one of the big hurdles with lethal mutagenesis: toxic side effects. In November, he and his colleagues reported wiping out H.I.V. in infected cells with a drug called 5-AZC. He chose the drug to test because doctors regularly prescribe it for precancerous blood disorders. Now that Dr. Mansky has demonstrated that an approved drug can cause lethal mutagenesis in H.I.V., he is moving forward with preclinical trials on people.

Other scientists are confident they will be able to find solutions to the other problems with lethal mutagenesis. One way to avoid the risk of cancer, for example, would be to design drugs that interfere only with replicating viruses but not host cells.

To eliminate the threat from evolving viruses, Dr. Wilke, of the University of Texas, advises a swift and brutal attack. “If you hit the virus hard and everything dies out in a couple generations, then everything is fine,” he said.

Lethal mutagenesis would be able to hit viruses even harder, Dr. Wilke argues, if it is part of a one-two punch. He points to studies like one published in November by Estaban Domingo of Autonomous University in Madrid and his colleagues.

Dr. Domingo first treated foot-and-mouth viruses with a drug that slowed their growth. Once the population had shrunk, he and his colleagues then gave the viruses a second drug to set off lethal mutagenesis. The viruses vanished much faster than they did when the scientists used lethal mutagenesis alone.

For Dr. Domingo, who has been studying mutation rates in viruses for more than three decades, the latest results suggest lethal mutagenesis will become a medical reality — at least someday.

“We’re still really just halfway in the development of all these strategies,” he said. “But I’m hopeful that it can be done.”
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Users who thank TonyDewitt for this post: Definatelyworried 

replied May 1st, 2013
Experienced User
Hello everyone - just curious if people are having flare ups good and bad.

Also I think flare ups are typical of CFS, anyone know if the same is true for htlv, hiv etc?
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replied May 1st, 2013
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Wyoming
CSF is a early symptom of HTLV. I would encourage anyone diagnosed with CSF to rule out HTLV.
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replied May 1st, 2013
Extremely eHealthy
DW,

Absolutely I agree - many people who've posted on Chronic Fatigue forums end up testing positive for HTLV. Ann from the POZ site recommends that everyone receive MULTIPLE tests for Hepatitis, but HTLV & its testing are never mentioned on that site (moronic ignorance).

Best wishes.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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Tony
I think i read somewhere that she is hiv and hcv positive due to I.V. drug use, if that is the case then that would be a risk factor for htlv if i were in those shoes i would get tested for htlv.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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DW,

Exactly - she is HIV and HCV positive from IV drug use, so if she can recommend (multiple) HCV tests, then I can recommend multiple HTLV tests. Like you said, anyone testing postive for either HIV or HCV could have contracted HTLV - recall that Doctor Bob died from sepsis, and no one had an explanation, yet sepsis is a textbook HTLV death for infected Aborigines. Amazing how deep the denial of HTLV runs - they won't even say that it killed Doctor Bob, beloved HIV doctor and blogger on the TheBody site.

Best wishes.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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WS,

Flare ups are part of everyone's life, whether infected or not, meaning that everyone has good days & bad days, and certainly no one's measuring why that is. People who are chronically ill with HTLV or HIV (or both) also have good & bad days, which could be other bodily issues (e.g. catching a cold) affecting their chronic illness. Today I happen to feel better than usual (thank God), but a few days ago I felt like a truck hit me.

Best wishes.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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Tony
I'm glad to hear that today you are feeling at least a little bit better. It's been an emotional roller coaster for me, but also not feeling as bad as i was a while back. Don't get me wrong tomorrow might be a whole different story.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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Tony
Very interesting. It's the first time i hear about lethal mutagenesis and also the one two punch they talk about. It seemed they used it on the young girl, i wish this treatment was being used more. If they get the ball rolling, we are looking at one of the biggest if not the biggest medical breakthrough yet.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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DW,

Using medication to treat viral infections happens, we just need to find someone willing to treat OUR viral infection. In the link below, the Chronic Fatigue group at Stanford University (Doctors Martin Lerner, MD and Jose G. Montoya, MD) are using antivirals to treat patients with CMV, EBV, and HHV6 (I had the last two) with much success. I've emailed Doctor Lerner about my desire to be treated with Azacytidine, and since Doctor Montoya does not have a posted e-mail address, I faxed him a letter. I'm finding that the faxed letter approach is going to be more common since most doctors don't advertise their e-mail address.

ChronicFatigue dot Stanford dot Edu slash infections slash herpes-treatment dot html

Best wishes.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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Also I talked to someone on the phone today that has been diagnosed with HTLV-2, he has had it for over a decade, he has had clinical symptoms for a while now that persis unfortunately theses symptoms he experience have not vanished, however the talk was encouraging, he talked about approaches to teating HAM/TSP and also ATL, there is treatment for these deseases.
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replied May 1st, 2013
with regard to the new HIV like disease.

I am trying to find an anti-interferon gamma antibodies test but do not know if it is available. If you can test for it I think that would be good also. As it says that around 90 per cent of people with this disease have such antibodies.

it is also tru that the symptoms of this disease are VERY wide and could be a hoax
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replied May 1st, 2013
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D85
I don't know if its a hoax or not. So far they have not isolated a virus from people suffering.
My understanding is that no one has died from this and most people recover completely. Since it started, overall concern for this has diminished.
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replied May 1st, 2013
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D85,

Try obtaining the LIPS test from Brazil, I'd like to see any of us tested positive or negative with that one please.

Best wishes.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
Google this study.

Absence of evidence of infection with divergent primate T-lymphotropic viruses in United States blood donors who have seroindeterminate HTLV test results.
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Users who thank Definatelyworried for this post: TonyDewitt 

replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
Hey guys,

I'm still having the soar throat now since the exposure, this can't be normal to have a soar throat for almost a year and a half. I look a the back of my wife and kids thoat and it looks nothing like mine. It's red in the back my tonsils have red patches on them I'm worried this is some kind of cancer I see the E.N.T. Dr. Next Friday I've got to get to the bottom of this, I'm going completely in sane I'm trying to keep it together for my wife and kids, I'm not sure how much longer I can keep living like this. Something is fu***ng wrong I'm on the verge of suicide and I feel like taking some of these drs with me I don't know how much longer I can keep it together.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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Scared,

I hear you, and believe me, I have days just as bad as yours. We are not going to be able to beat this thing by going to doctors and asking them to figure out what's wrong with us (although that's EXACTLY what doctors are supposed to do) - that has not worked for any of us and IT NEVER WILL. We need to have a completely different tactic where we hunt down a doctor who's willing to listen to us and treat us with Azacytidine. There's a 58 year old man in Greece walking around right now without a care in the world, who was deathly ill just two years ago. We can do this, even when I spoke to WS on the phone, we decided that if doctors can freely write prescriptions for pain killers for people to get high, then we can get prescribed for Azacytidine just as easily. Please network and see who you can find.

Best wishes.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
S49
If the sore throat is infectiouse why doesn't your wife have it? Have you had unprotected sex with her?
The reason I ask is because your sore throat might have nothing to do with the exposure you had.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
Tony,

Do you think it's possible I've got hepatitis c even though I've had 3 tests already its wierd because the tests would read negative for hepatitis a&b but the hep c result would say 0.1 did anyone else's come out this way as well? I'm just wondering because of the light and clay colored stools.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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Scared,

Hepatitis has a 6 month antibody window, which we both are WAY beyond, and where I donate blood they do a PCR test for it as well. Even though the virus is attacking our livers (as seen by elevated liver counts and liver pain for me), it is not Hepatitis.

Best wishes.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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I also was worried that i had hep c. I did get tested for it. Came back negative. I did read that the treatment for hep c is going to improve dramatically by next year with practically no side effects.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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DW,

Yes, so many treatments are coming out for HIV & Hepatitis that they should start working on treatments for HTLV instead, which have none.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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Tony

I hope there is a public cure for HIV and HTLV soon. This would not be as bad if there were one.
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replied May 3rd, 2013
Extremely eHealthy
DW,

What's worse is that if they do find a cure for HIV, they will still ignore people like us with HTLV. That's why we need to push for recognition and treatment sooner rather than later, otherwise we (and our lives) will be swept under the rug.

Best wishes.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
DW,

I wonder the same thing, but then again I haven't really done any deep kissing with her since the exposure. We've had sex maybe 4 times since it just isn't the same anymore I know I infected her with something it takes everything I have to have sex with her but I feel so ashamed and discusted when we do it. I just feel like I don't deserve to live any longer I've ruined my life because of this and I'm afraid mi wife's as well. This really really sucks man.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
Is she having any symptoms?
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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Scared,

I hear you.... I am in the same exact situation. I am so concerned for my wife.

I do not know what this is but I think I did pass it along to her.

I can not talk about this with many people but I did chat with a close family member.

They told me the following: we all make mistakes, I recently found out family members who are happily married now for 25 and 50 years among others had infidelity.

Not an excuse but we are human and this should not define our person. Also for me the reason I did not say anything is I didn't want to hurt my wife and thought that oral was not a hiv / unknown virus risk. For me it was worst case GC or chlaymedia vs. hurting her... So I chose to not tell. In hind sight I was wrong but not on purpose.

Anyway, If this is just a coxsackie or the Chinese like - I am hoping it gets better after a couple of years.

Having a 7 month test in the next week or so...

Do not beat yourself up - just make every day about her, do anything you can to make it up to her. Be the best person you can be every day.

If I am hiv positive it will not matter but if not, I am going to do everything I can for her every single day.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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WS,

You dont have HIV - you can test as many times as you want, you will not come back positive. HTLV is a real thing, even though no one ever warned us about it.

Best wishes.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
I'm looking for my hep c result ill tell u how it reads.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
Hep c
Negative <0.8
Indeterminate 0.8 - 0.9
Positive >0.9

Results <0.1
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
S49
Sounds like your Hep C results read like mine.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
DW,

Yes she had all the same symptoms as me after we had sex the first time fter the exposure. Her eyelids are dark like mine she's fatigued all the time she complains of nausea that comes and goes. The symptoms aren't as bad now, but I know something's not right I've been with her for 11 years now. I know I infected her with something and its tearing me up inside.

WS,

Thanks for the encouragement man I really appreciate it. I just hope this goes away to this really taught me a lesson. I know if I hadn't been drinking this would have never happened I know it's know excuse but to much alcohol and being on vacation man I was just having fun you know. Why does it happen to the good people? I made a mistake and I'm fearing it might cost me my life and my wife's as well. I'm only 35 and feel like I'm 70. This is crazy it's like I'm living a life that I don't want to live anymore. I've got 4 kids as well and I feel so distant from them as we'll how can I be a father living like this? This is a fu**ed up way to live.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
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DW,

That's what concerns me why dosent it say negative like the hep a&b result. Could it be a slight infection. Do you have any symptoms of hep c?
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
No. < means less than so <0.1 means less than 0.1 which would be practically 0 but remember anything less than 0.8 means negative. I think its due to the fact that it is not 100% specific. I would say it extremely sensitive and if you had Hep C the number would be much higher.
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replied May 2nd, 2013
Experienced User
S49
I don't know if you heard a bout mycoplasma, I'm not saying you have it but it could be cured with an antibiotic doxycycline 100 mg capsules twice daily, not only that, this antibiotic is used to clear a lot of bacterial infections including chlamidya, syphilis and even none std bacteria, and even if you don't have anything this antibiotic is safe to take. Try to get a prescription for this antibiotic for you and your wife try to get a 2.5 week prescription.
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replied May 3rd, 2013
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Scared,

You can take all the antibiotics in the world, it's not going to make a difference because this thing is a virus, and antibiotics don't do anything for a viral infection. Instead take an antiviral and see how you feel.

Best wishes.
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