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Conditions and Diseases > Back Pain Forum > Bulging C4/C5 Discs - Surgery ?
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Q: Bulging C4/C5 Discs - Surgery ?
asked by: MissKR on September 17th, 2008
New User
Hi. I know this is quite long, but please read the whole thing before responding. I'm 22 years old and was in a car accident (not my fault, in fact, I was a passenger in a car that was hit by an oblivious old man running a red light) exactly 2.5 years ago (April 2006).

I got an X-ray after having back pain that day and was told my back was merely "strained" and given muscle relaxers and sent on my way. Nothing was broken.

Soon after I began to develop severe pain in my neck, mid-back, and lower back, and had crippling migraine-like headaches that started at the base of my skull and went all the way to my eyebrows. I had never had headaches before. I soon started chiropractic and was told I would need to stop working out in the mean time, which I did. Chiropractic provided some relief, as did ultrasound on my neck/shoulders. Nonetheless, as my chiropractor tried to slowly ween me off chiropractic care months later, I began to have all sorts of pain again and headaches. By this time, I was literally in so much pain that I would only attend school and would lay around not moving the rest of every day. I also began to miss school, never saw my friends, and never felt good enough or was in so much pain that I didn't do anything socially at all.

As a sidebar... before this car accident, I was a straight-A college student involved in about 5 committees/activities, flag football captain in intramurals (co-ed league, but I was the only girl), lifted weights/cardio 6 days a week, took 24 credit hours per semester (fairly easily), did promotional work 20 hours most weeks, was on track to graduate college 2 years early (because I took so many college classes as a high school student and when I got to college), still managed to have an active social life, did some acting/modeling on the side, and had many hobbies. I am very Type-A and like to be doing something at all times, and physical fitness and school were/(are) priorities in my life.

Moving on... my chiropractor began to blame me for my own pain, saying that I "partied too much" and "stayed up all night reading too often" and that I just needed to take it easy more. This was complete bull, as my life had basically slowed to a miserably painful crawl by this point, and being social or even reading for more than a little while would cause me crippling pain. I also took a semester off school, after already working down to 12 credit hours at school and barely scraping along to finish them on time. Sitting a chair at school and getting headaches from neck spasms made sitting in school miserable.

By then, it was exactly a year after the initial car accident (April 2007), and my doctor recommended physical therapy and tests after I came to him explaining that I was in so much pain and not getting better. An MRI revealed a bulging disc in my neck between C4-C5 (or maybe there were 2, I honestly don't remember). He sent me to a spinal rehabilitation center and I stopped chiropractic, now knowing that after months of being told that nothing was wrong with me and my pain was in my head, that something was legitimately wrong. I also started pain meds and muscle relaxers at this time as for the last year, I had refrained from them and opted to hurt all the time instead. At this time, it hurt my lower back too much for me to take my beloved dog for even 6 block walks.

Physical therapy revealed that I had all sorts of postural problems causing me pain. I started PT (2x a week) and traction treatments on a machine called the DRX (3x a week) for the first couple months. I never had another headache after starting traction. The exercises, however, that my PT gave me seemed to be helping some places (lower back) but making other worse (mid-back, a rib started to cause me quite bad pain across my chest). He pretty much ignored these symptoms for months and took me off the DRX, and a lot of my pain came back, though less severe than when I began treatments. He accused me of not doing my exercises, which yet again, was crap. Then he then moved me to James, the "PT of last resort" at the center.

I began PT with James, who is one of 15 people in the country with his certification. He travels on many weekends to teach, and only sees the most complicated patients. Since then, I have made a lot of progress. My lower back pain is almost completely eliminated, and fairly easy to fix with my home regimen. My mid-back is quite good, too. I still have the problem with my rib (T4 syndrome - it has a name) sticking out and causing pain, but that is getting better, too. I was also recently put back on DRX treatment for my neck, which seems to offer some help, but only for a short amount of time.

Basically, I've been in PT for 16 months and have had very good progress on all of my postural/spinal issues. My neck, however, seems resistant to any kind of long-term change. I've made extreme lifestyle changes, do my PT program rigorously (it takes me 1.5-2 hours a day - which I adhere to strictly), sleep on a memory foam pillow, use heat/ice/TENS/Hako-Med(at PT), and still have a lot of pain in my neck.

I've gone without exercise (other than walks) for 2.5 years, am now 2 semesters behind in college, and only work every couple weeks or so because I can't tolerate consecutive full days of promotional work. I also no longer do modeling or acting because I'm out of shape now.

It seems like because my disc(s) is/are bulging and not herniated, that I'm supposed to be in substantially less pain than I am, but I'm not. I'm in pain every day of my life in varying degrees, but enough that it still, 2.5 years later, substantially effects my ability to do things I enjoy that I'm permitted to.

I don't want to take muscle relaxers/pain relievers/anti-inflammatories for the rest of my life (I still refuse cold medication). I'm extremely needle-phobic; not as in, I don't like needles. As in, I will physically pass out and/or break out in hives (stress-related in very extreme cases with me) and ironically, have to get ANOTHER shot to control them. I do not want to get injections, and if I do, I do not want to be forced to get them for the rest of my life. I'm 22 years old and have already had to deal with another trauma-related injury (of the eye) that made me miss a year of school (from which I recovered with a scholarship to a private high school for testing better than 99% of the other applicants). After missing an entire year of school.

So basically, I feel like I literally have no other options than surgery at this point, because I'm simply not getting better. I cannot stand to be in this much pain anymore. If surgery will alleviate all or some of it, then I will definitely consider it. I have an appointment at a spine clinic next week, but I was wondering if anyone had any stories/opinions/advice on surgery for a BULGING (not herniated or degenerative) disc given my circumstances and situation.

Any help would be very greatly appreciated and I look forward to hearing your stories. Please know that I had quite a high pain tolerance and am not simply trying to exaggerate a situation for any reason.

Thanks, have a lovely day.
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littleonefb
replied on September 17th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with all of this at such a young age.

16 months of PT and not making progress with your cervical spine, i.e. your neck is far to long to be continuing with the PT.

The DRX traction treatment is still a controversial treatment without very good studies to really show that it works.
So far, I've heard and read that results are not great with it, but may help for short term relief.

At this point in time what you need to do is get another opinion from a different doctor that you have been using.

Is the present doctor a spinal surgeon or is your doctor a general doctor that has sent you to PT?

I would suggest that, being that you have been athletic and young, that you find a sports medicine orthopedic surgeon that specializes in spines only and have a new evaluation done.

No doubt a new spine surgeon will order an MRI to start with to see what is going on now. They are only useful for about 6 months at most and then you need a new one as so many things can change over that period of time.

Any doctor or PT or chiropractor (and I personally would stay as far away from a chiropractor as I possibly could, especially if it involves my cervical spine and discs), that would accuse a patient of not doing exercises and that it's all in your head, are ones that no one should use.

Though it is quite possible that a patient will not improve because they are not doing their exercises at home, it is also equally possible and very likely that they are not competent, not treating you for the correct diagnosis, or that what they are doing will not help because you need a different type of treatment.

It really is time for you to get another opinion, a new MRI and to get the correct diagnosis and a treatment plan right away.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing.

Fran
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MissKR
replied on September 18th, 2008
New User
Thanks for writing back and trying to help out so much.

Alright, the doctor that sent me to chiropractic first, then to PT when I wasn't getting better with that, was simply my family practice MD. He also ordered the MRI's and had me get 3, in order to check my entire spine. Thoracic and lumbar regions looked fine, and since then I haven't had an reason to doubt that was true. Thankfully, as aside from postural stuff, that only leaves my neck as being the potentially permanently messed up part.

My PT is the Director of Spine Rehab at the place I go, and his certifications are MPT and PRC... I don't know what those mean. The owner of my PT place is a DO.

I agree with what you said. I think that the premise under which it is used at my PT place, is that fixing postural problems will ease disc damage, and that the DRX will alleviate some pain while that is happening. Which is true, short-term relief. It really does help when my neck just tightens way up. And I do credit it with alleviating my headaches. But for me, it's definitely past any form of long-term benefit.

Yeah, regarding the physical therapist I started out with... it's a pretty well-known fact that I don't like him. I don't blatantly say things, but I know for a fact that other patients have had the same complaints because I make friends where ever I go and had heard people (young-ish like me) say the exact same things. I have absolutely no reason not to work my butt off to get better if it's within my control. I used to work out for 2-3 hours most days, and though PT exercises are strenuous in a different (and completely sucky) way, I still know that I absolutely have to do them if I'm ever going to get better. For him to attribute my lack of progress to my lack of effort, was about as bad as the chiropractor saying that I cause my own neck pain. As you might be able to tell, I've had some pretty extreme opinions and have basically been brainwashed to believe my problems were my own fault for months at a time. I would probably benefit from some type of grief or pain management counseling, but I've tried 3 different counselors and felt like none of them got me or really listened, so I scratched that idea. They would seem to benefit less self-aware individuals, if that makes sense. Sorry, tangent.

Anywho, I've never considered or thought of a sports injury surgeon because my injury wasn't sports-related, but I absolutely understand why you would suggest that. That's an excellent idea. I live in Omaha, NE; and there is a place called Nebraska Spine Center, which deals with spine/disc surgeries, and Miller Orthopaedic, which is right across the river and deals with all sorts of injury related, surgical, joint replacement, spinal surgery, etc. I guess I never considered that surgery would be an option for me, but now I'm to the point where I have to. The latter would probably be an excellent place to make an appointment. My mom has an in there as well (worked there for 13 years), and she can make a couple easy calls and learn who is the absolute best doctor to see there, get me a quick appointment, etc.

Thanks again for your help/suggestions. Can I ask what happened to you? Have you personally been injured in a similar way, knew someone, etc? Work in health care? You should share your story if you have one. Smile
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littleonefb
replied on September 20th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
Hi MissKR,

First off, let me assure you that because I recommended you see a spine surgeon, does not mean that you need or I think you may need spinal surgery.

The reason to see a spinal surgeon is that they are the doctors that are trained in diagnosis and treatment of any and all spinal problems whether surgery is going to be required or not.

I personally am partial to sports medicine orthopedic surgeons because of my experience with them both with my kids and sports related injuries that required surgery on on one and just broken bones set on the other.
When I was in need of spine diagnosis, I sought out a sports medicine orthopedic surgeon that specializes in spines for the reasons that I find them far more up to date on treatments, surgical techniques that are considered main stream but new, ( not laser spine surgery) and that they have the highest respect for the human anatomy and the consequences of surgery and cutting into muscles if that is needed to treat the underlying spinal problems.

In otherwords, if surgery is needed, they will make the smallest incision needed to do the surgery and if they need to enlarge the incision, it is done by 1/2 inch at a time, so as to minimize the cutting and injury to the muscles.

I also like the way they treat patients. Respect them, explain everything to them, and consider the patient and family as part of the team that will help to heal the patient. They also are very conservative in their approach and will do surgery only as a last resort when there is no other alternative.
There understanding of the mechanics of the body and how surgery can and does create problems on it's own, makes them very careful how and when they do and do not do surgery, Especially on someone that is young. On the other hand, if it is the best course of treatment, they are not afraid to do surgery.

Before I did consent to surgery on my spine, I had several other opinions, from neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons. The opinions varied widely, but all wanted to do surgery with large incisions, 5-7 inches long and one saw nothing wrong with my spine and told me to see a shrink.
I returned to my original spine surgeon, who was a sports medicine orthopedic surgeon who specializes in spines and he did my surgery, a success and the incision was only 1 inch long.

As for your questions about me. I did not suffer an injury before having my first spinal surgery, but my second one this past june was do to an accident, do not work in health care now, though did work in hospitals for many years in the past. I do have a full knowledge of medical terminology though and access to doctors to ask questions as well.

The Nebraska spine center is an excellent facility. I have talked to people on other forums who have gone there and been very, very pleased with the spinal surgeons there, the treatment, both surgical and non surgical and would recommend it to anyone.
I do not know anything about the Miller Orthopedic though. I would have your mother call ASAP and get you in there for evaluation.

What I am is a "spiney" like you and others on these forums, I do have spine problems that have been surgically corrected.

My first surgery was the result of spinal stenosis at the L4/L5, lateral recess stenosis to be exact.
My symptoms where a sudden onset in February 2006. Went to bed one night fine and couldn't get out of bed the next morning, the pain was so severe. It's not very common to have symptoms come on like this, but it does happen on occassion.

I tried the conservative route of steroid injections, oral steroids and nerve pain meds, neurontin to be exact and 4 months later with no relief from any of these treatments, I had no choice but to have surgery.
I couldn't walk, dragged my right leg as if I had had a stroke and just plain could not function at all as a human being.

I got several other opinions before the surgery, even though I really loved and trusted my spinal surgeon, but common sense tells you to do that, especially when you are dealing with the spine.

I returned to my spine surgeon and had surgery 4 days later. I woke up from surgery without any pain and was fine after a round of PT, until winter 2007.

Then I was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, with and extremely elderly woman behind the wheel of the car. Instead of pressing the brake, she pressed the accelerator and rammed her car into a huge cement planter in front of the town hall in the town I live in. I was just coming down the stairs, couldn't get out of her way and the shards of the cement planter landed on the left side of my lumbar spine.

At first it seemed that I was fine, and x-rays and an MRI appeared to show nothing wrong. But a month later, i started having disc problems with the L3/L4 vertebrae and ended up needing surgery again this past june 2008.
I used the same spine surgeon and he did a laminotomy to get the pressure off my disc and nerves and I have been slowly recovering from that surgery since.

As an example though, a friend of mine went to see my spine surgeon with a disc problem. He had a herniation in the disc. The doctor sent him to PT for 8 weeks and the herniation healed over on it's own as most do. No surgery from a spine surgeon.

Good luck and keep us posted as to what your new spine surgeon says.

Fran
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JIMTERESE
replied on May 17th, 2009
New User
Spine Surgery
Do not go to the nebraska spine center. they messed up me and my wife back by doing the surgery. i had to go to mayo clinic and they said to not go to the nebraska spine center. mayo said they they did my surgery wrong and i had to have another back surgery this time at mayo clinic. mayo clinic recomeds neurosurgeons only for backs. nebvraska spine center does not use neurosurgeons. dr treves is recomened by mayo. jim from fremont
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