Sorry Phocks, I have never heard of your particular problem before, however that does NOT mean it does not exist.

I wish you all the best in sorting it all out with your doctor.

Suggest that you look it all up on the Internet and see if you can get a better idea of it all.

Borderline Personanatly(sp) disorder has been confused with Bipolar before. Possibly there are some overlaps in symptoms.

Some Bipolars can be pretty unpleasent people in Manic phase as you probally know thus the possible confusion with Narcissistic personality disorder.

I guess the thing to ask yourself are you ALWAYS in a Narcisstic mood? If bipolar you would not be.

Good luck,

JennyRobin

Hey JennyRobin.

I believe what my psychologist is thinking is that I am swinging between Bordeline & Narcisstic Personality Disorders. The Bordeline would be consistent with a depressive phase of bipolar and the Narcisstic would be the manic phase.

I go through very severe stages of depression where I feel totally worthless. I fear abandonment. I become very impulsive and reckless and have made some stupid decisions. I have reaccuring suicidal thoughts. I have major temper issues....all textbook borderline personality.

Then there are stages where i become kind of self obbsessed. I am not vocally full of myself or overly confident. But I become consumed by my own fantasies. I will constantly have my head phones on blocking out the world so i am alone in my own world. I am constantly fantasing about me being this great, well respected and successful person. i become so consumed by this world that it makes me feel great and feel alive (BUT IT IS NOT REAL!!!!). I have also done things and made up stories simply to manipulate the focus back on to me.....these are the Narcisstic symptoms.

There is a definate destintion between the two types of personalities. And it is clear that I possess both.

I guess this is where we are now looking down the path of bipolar.

xoxox

Thanks for your reply..

Dear Phocks,

Part of the idea of giving a "name" to a disorder a person may have is for med and psychological treatment if necessary.

While the current diagnosis may well be correct, I would be inclined to get another diagnosis and from a pyschiatrist. I personally like to go to two, in my case it ended up being three

Mind you reading your symptoms (which you wrote very well and clearly - I get the impression that you are well educated and an intelligent type )that from what I remember; I read up on both disorders a while back, that you and your doctor may well be correct. Hey I am not a health professional.

Ah, while there is always the chance of just one person showing up a particular mixture of disorders, why not look up the DSM for both disorders and see if either is excluded in the list of criteria of the other. I do not know what they means.

And do a Google Scholar search (advanced search)fpr both disodres in the title of the research paper.

Google scholar search


Good luck with it all and I hope that you are able to find treatment which will make your life a great deal easier to live.

If your doctors think it is both disorders into woven with Bipolar some of the Bipolar meds, might just assist you.

Be advised it can sometimes be a long haul to find the meds which suit a particular person. But worth it believe you me. My life has taken on new meaning with my current meds.

Meds: Lamictal 200mgs in the AM. Seroquel 50 -75mgs in the am and 150mgs in the pm.

I visit another Bipolar site and it seems to me, that none of those with Bipolar are actually on the same combination of medication and there is a few people there.

All the best to you,

JennyRobin

No, you are not alone. No reason to be ashamed. I have ocd and ptsd, so I have my own personality issues to cope with! It's understandable that we--with mental health conditions--feel like we're completely on our own in the world sometimes.

It can definitely be a lonely feeling. I hope you have some support.

Borderline personality disorder is now being reviewed by many psychiatrists. The current thoughts on this disorder is that it is actually bipolar disorder and presents differently. The disparity in diagnosis is due, in part, to the limited views in psychiatry over 100 years ago when the first DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual) was written. Through more studies and following patients throughout years of treatment the psychiatric world is now revising some of the diagnosises and the symptoms associated with them. Many overlap. Many present in similar ways. It is now believed by some doctors that bipolar disorder is a spectrum disorder. It can range from very mild to very severe and everything in between. Treatment is imparitve if you are diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I hope you seek medical treatment for your disorder.

Wow that is interesting.

I can definately see where the change in perspective has come looking at the DSM criteria for Borderline Personality.

What I found interesting was that my Psychologist told me that Borderline was being reviewed and the new diagnosis would be Adult ADHD. The scary thing for a guy who has had 3 diagnosis thrown at him at one time is that there seems to be so much unknown. There seems to be only interpretation and perspective.

I fear that there is no treatment for me. I fear that I am who I am and I will just have to live with my many shortcomings.

I fear I cant live with that.

Antigone,

I notice that you seem to have professional knowledge by the substance of your messages.

I also note that you refer to reseach.

Are you able to put up the sourses or links when you are quoting research? Sourcing research is a common thing to do.

No I don't mean pages and pages of sources, just one or two.

Regards,

JennyRobin

Phocks,

Just read the following which I missed before:

"What I found interesting was that my Psychologist told me that Borderline was being reviewed and the new diagnosis would be Adult ADHD"

While I have read many times that there appears to be some linking of Borderline with adult ADHD, I am wondering where your psychologist got his remark from.

For unless the proposed criteria for Adult ADHD for DSM-V (2011 - 2012) is changed there will be little mention of Boardline Personality Disorder in DSM-V other than exclusion when associated with Adult ADHD.

As I understand it Prof Russell Barkley is the leader of the group who are forming the criteria for Adult ADHD in DSM-V. Which will be a new entry in DSM-V as previously adults have been assest(sp) using the children's criteria.

I have Russell Barkley's book "ADHD in Adults What the Science Says". This book contains the arguement for the list of proposed criteria for Adult ADHD. And believe you me, it takes some reading, it arguments, its references to many research papers.

This book is full of references to various research where Barkley et al, bring to-gether and explain their reasons for the proposed DSM-V list of ADHD criteria for adults.

Barkley et al found that there were not many studies which evaluated those with ADHD and comorbid Personality Disorders (page 223). Thus it was difficult for them to draw comparisons between adult-outcome results and those for clinic-referred adults with ADHD (I am assuming the later ie clinic-referred adults are those with a personility disorder - and gather they come from people who have attended clinics for their disorder)

That being said the proposed list of criteria vertually excludes Mood Disorders (which to me is strange as some are linking ADHD with Bipolar - possibly not enough evidence) and Personality Disorders. Nor do the proposed symptoms (9) read to me to contain any symptom of a Bordeline Personality Disorder. But could Bipolar, but remember Bipolar is excluded.

Maybe they have changed the criteria since this book was written (2007). That I do not know.

It may assist you to look at the current DSM symptoms of both Borderline Personality Disorder and ADHD (combined). This way you might get a better idea for yourself.

I have seen as Antigone says some linking ADHD to Bipolar, who knows what the next DSM will bring?

This linking between Bipolar and ADHD is understandable, due to the implusive and hyperactive nature of those with Bipolar and ADHD.

My two cents worth after going from a diagnosis of ADHD combined (and much study of ADHD - even wrote a book in it) to now Mixed States Bipolar, is that while some ADHDers may present with some like symptoms to Bipolar in the manic or hypomanic states, there is the problem of the severe depressions that Bipolar 1's go into and the (on most occasions) lesser depression of the Bipolar IIs, ie two distant and different distinct states occuring separately at different times in those with Bipolar.

But of course comorbid depression is commonly present with ADHD. Could be as high as 30% - 40% if I remember correctly.

The differnce? Well Bipolars are not depressed and manic at the same time (well I am with mixed bipolar - but a diferent types of each, mania and depression), and those with ADHD have their depression more or less continually (before treatment). When depressed they are also hyperactive and implusive.

Actually this forum we are in is I feel not set up for great discussions relating to what those composing DSM-V will do. As I could go on and on, re symptoms etc. Nothing I love more than to discuss symptoms of ADHD and Bipolar

Regards,

Jenny

Reference: Russell A. Barkley, Kevin R. Murphy and Mariellen Fischer) book "ADHD in Adults What the Science Says" 2007. The Guilford Press. New York and London.