I have two major issues with your post, but I think it’s more due to its wording so feel free to simply reword your question where I misunderstood.

The worst of it is that you are comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. They are completely different. Pedophilia is a sickness and completely unnatural, whereas homosexuality is not. I understand you know the difference, but you need to especially remember that difference when trying to support homosexuality in the Catholic Church. It's truly better NOT to make that comparison and stick to pedophilia being the sickness that it truly is and compare homosexuality to heterosexuality.

I have seen the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia. I’ve seen that disgusting sickness creep into one of my own friends from when I was younger. Even though I never really had any negative feelings for homosexuals from the beginning, the clear change in my friend behaviors only enforced that fact in my mind. I guess that’s one reason I’ve never truly been able to come to terms with my Church’s views on homosexuality. They are so different.

The other thing is that you're applying the sins of few to all priests and just the Church in general. What about teachers who are pedophiles? Does that mean schools are supporting pedophilia when few teachers take advantage of their position of authority and trust? Should we all change our opinion on pedophilia because some people take part in it? Nope! And the church is no different. Priests are just like everyone else, they have their struggles and unfortunately they don’t always do the "right" thing, but I don’t think that reflects the views of the entire church or its followers.

I'm disgusted with the cover up and don't have any much to say about it, but it’s my understanding that those involved in the cover up were punished. However, in terms of punishment, defrocking is really the only thing a church can do isn't it and that's not really a small thing for someone. Is it the Church’s job to see them punished in the justice system (I’m seriously asking, I have no idea how that works.) Were settlements made?

And I believe the church has taken steps to help prevent this from happening in the future/

Gah you totally misunderstood me. I very well know the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality, but when a MALE priest molests a MALE child, it can be considered pedophilia and homosexuality WITHIN the church.
The reason I am applying the sins of a few priests to the Church in general because the church itself seems to have some sort of vendetta against homosexuality, and what these few individuals have done can be considered BOTH homosexual and pedophile. I understand the sickness that pedophilia is, you only need to look at my answer to a topic serviceU posted in Supporter forum. My problem is, that I have seen a few devout Catholics on THIS website themselves state that it is NOT homosexuality they dislike, it is the ACT of male/male touching and anal penetration. Now since these priests were indeed NOT homosexual, yet they penetrated the backdoor of many of these little boys (there are some cases where this was INDEED done)would it be considered homosexuality in the Church's eyes? A sin upon the sin of taking away a child's innocence?

Also, there is a HUGE difference between pedophilia AND rape. True pedophiles REALLY LOVE the child, but in the way two adults should love each other. Rapists commit the act for control. Are you sure that ALL of the priests were pedophiles and not just a few of them were? I am pretty sure that some of these priests were indeed in want of control over these children and not loving them inappropriatly, as a pedophile would. I know the difference between rape and pedophilia, they have BOTH sadly been done to me.

The reason I compare the act of an adult man raping a little boy to homosexuality is because there are so many religious people out there who say it is the ACT of anal penetration (or homosexual sex acts) that is the sin, and NOT homosexuality itself...so why would you allow, hide, and cover up these heinous crimes, then turn around and preach homosexuality as being immoral?

I did not bring up pedophiles/rapists in the general public, because, as in my original post, most of those offenders DO get prosecuted.

While I am glad the church is doing something about it, I still have a hard time understanding why the bishops or whoever handle these cases (which is, I believe, primarily in the Catholic community, how they handle this sort of crime)have to trial the priest in question before turning them over to the law. See, in the general public, a person files a complaint and the law picks up immediately on it. For example, if a teacher were to rape or act indecently with a child, the school does not trial the teacher FIRST, they IMMEDIATELY contact law enforcement.

I just wish everyone could let everybody else be. Even if you think that their lifestyle will send them to hell.

P.S. while I do have empathy for pedophiles, I do not condone their acts. I do not believe they should be in jail for their sickness, though. There should be some kind of hospital just for them so they can get the treatment and help they need. A rapist is totally different from a pedophile.

I wonder if it has to do with the act of contrition and confession and all that. I don't know much about the political structure of the Catholic church or the specifics of their doctrine but I could see it being similar to if someone confessed to their priest that they had done some crime. The priest, maybe, sees God as the ultimate judge and so is not thinking of wordly punishment and law and all that. I don't know how the law applies to cases like these. Look at lawyers, for example; I am sure there are many cases where the lawyer hears the accused confess or whatever, but they have lawyer-client confidentiality under the law, so the lawyer defends this person that they know is guilty and gets them off scot free. Just a thought. I don't think you can ask all Catholics to answer for the bad apples. That would be like saying why do we continue to obey the laws of our land when the legal system allows a murderer to go free when their lawyer knows darn well that he is guilty? We know our system is flawed but we still stand by it for whatever reasons.

I am not a Catholic but I am Christian and have seen other denominations take the same stance when religious figures have been exposed for having affairs, being homosexual, fathering children outside of their marriages, embezzling money, going to strip clubs... I think that attitude is the same as the Catholic church. Deny, deny, deny until the person is faced with indisputable evidence and has to confess. Send them away for a while. Then welcome them back into the fold and rejoice over their redemption. It is as if the church has all the forgiveness in the world for supposed Christians that mess up and none for perceived sinners.

I don't mind them being forgiven at all, it is just the way they are trialed first by the church and then MAYBE the law is contacted. Shouldn't we all have to pay for crimes we commit? I also don't get why homosexuality is considered a sin by these churches when clearly some of the priests are NOT pedophiles, yet they are raping little boys. Not all of them are raping, and some may very well be pedophiles, but I don't think you can say they are all pedophiles.

I was thinking that if the accusation was true and didn't end in a conviction then it probably was settled privately with money and a defrocking. I'm guessing the church and those who were abused, wouldn't want an all out trial. I'm not really sure how things are currently handled with investigating things privately. I was thinking maybe its to protect those who are accused falsly, since that would pretty much be the end of that priest's life if there was a very publicized sexual abuse investigation, even if he was found innocent.

As for private investigations, I'm not going to spend a lot of time sticking up for it when I think that its wrong. There should be a joint effort when investigating accusations and I agree that the bishops who help hide the abuse should have been punished as well. But I really don't know much about it.



I still don't understand what you think should be change in Catholic religion, aside from how things are handled. To the church, homosexuality is wrong, and a priest raping or touching children in dark corners isn't and shouldn't change the church's stance on things. The priests did it. They sinned. They aren't perfect people and have their own struggles and their own faults-- right up to the Pope-- otherwise they wouldn't need confession and they wouldn't be human.

I'd like the church to change its stance on homosexualityre, but I don't think these instances are going to have much to do with it and I'd be pretty disappointed if they did.

I think it's all about image. The church does not want to air its dirty laundry so they try to handle things in- house.
As for homosexualtiy and pedophilia, according to the Catholic church, any sex a priest has is sinful. If they refuse to even consider allowing priests to marry, they certainly are not going to address the issue of homosexualiity or pedophilia in the priesthood. Denial is their only coping mechanism.
I think the Catholic church's stance is wrong but I don't imagine that it is going to change any time soon.

Yeah you all are right. Religion, to be honest, just confuses me. Some things just seem like contradictions.

for all these sins done , and for all the sins to be done in future ONE had crucified. why priests should worry?

Wow, that is like saying who cares about the little boys and girls hurt by these priests :S

a certain nos. of people do thse things. that % is applicable to Priests.nuns Etc.

Well, the law is applicable to them as well. I'm sorry but I don't think "Hail Marys" and "Our Fathers" cover this kind of sin. This is the kind of sin that is a crime and which has long lasting aftereffects on innocent children and their families. I don't think you can just shrug it off and say "oh well" that's what Jesus died for. That just makes a mockery of everything Christ stood for.

if u are not satisfied, then plse see Quran and see the fate of Prophet Luth's wife and community, who did all these sins.Do you like their fate?

In the eyes of God all sins are equally bad/sinful. Forgiveness from Christ has nothing to do with the law of the land but with your relationship with Him and whether or not you've asked for forgiveness. Thus why separation of church and state is necessary or else jail wouldn't exist.

I wonder why criminal cases haven't been brought up and why anybody would accept money over jailtime as a punishment for raping their child, male or female.

Not to turn this into a theology debate but, the only reason that all sins are equal in the eyes of god is because for a sin that is this heinous, it takes that much more regret and recognition of the damage done to truly repent in your heart and soul. Just shrugging it off or minimizing it or treating it like something that is less serious, like maybe forgetting to say your bedtime prayers because you were too tired, is not evidence of being a god fearing and faithful person. Aside from the fact that a human being should have compassion for other human beings and have regret for causing them pain and suffering, especially as it concerns innocent children, one should not take gods forgiveness for granted even though one has faith in it. To say that it is okay to commit sins because god will forgive us anyway is not a god fearing way to live. One should, rather, acknowledge that we are weak and we make mistakes and humbly ask for forgiveness. God asks us not to commit sins but Jesus died for us because we aren't that great at following orders. To take that sacrifice for granted is dangerous.

98.05 percent of ALL pedophiles are heterosexual men...Thats a fact.
If you are a child molester then you are sick and perverted and evil...it has NOTHING to do with sexuality. Homosexuals and bisexuals and heterosexuals and transsexuals are people...not just a label. Its so easy to put people in a box and say they are this or they are that....warped minds come in all colors and all sexes and genders.
This has nothing to do with God or being GLBT or if you pray or go to church...that is all just a mask. A good person is a good person.My best friend is atheist and he is the most loving honest and caring person on the planet.he would never hurt any one.He doesn't curse or do drugs or anything and it isn't out of fear of Hell or because he thinks it will make "God" happy..he does it because it is the right thing to do.Don't judge a book by its cover and don't throw stones at people until you walk a mile in there shoes...it really makes me mad when gay and pedophile are thrown together in the same sentence...its wrong wrong wrong...did I say its wrong? IT IS WRONG!

Homer, I totally understand that. I am not making this out to be about men molesting little boys as gay. What I am trying to say is that, and you have seen this too, homer, some people on here have said it is not homosexuality that is the sin, it is the ACT of homosexuality (ie, homosexual sex---anal sex, male/male oral sex, f/f oral sex, male/male genitals touching, f/f genitals touching, etc)that is the sin. So my simple question is, if it is only the act of homosexuality that is the sin, then why do some churches continue to preach the hatred of homosexuals? Especially, when some of these churches own CLERGY are performing the ACT of homosexuality (even if they are straight) on innocent children? And also because some homosexuals DO NOT engage in any homosexual acts...its true! Now does everyone read me more clearly? It took me awhile, but I think I have finally worded this right. Crosses fingers.

when some of these churches own CLERGY are performing the ACT of homosexuality (even if they are straight) on innocent children?





These clergies may be deterred/prevented from having healthy sexual life, with marriage or otherwise. They may be prevented from adopting other alternatives to satisfy / cure their sexual desires,due to their dignified posts. Then they find it easy to do this to the children. So we should identify the things which prevent them
from having a normal sexual life. They are also people with sexual desires even though happened to be clergies.

motherofhighspiritedones, I don't think anyone (whether in the church or not) believes that homosexuals are celibate, anymore than they believe that adult heterosexuals are celibate.