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Q: Been Having Trouble With My Faith
asked by: Gu£st on April 28th, 2008
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I have really been struggling with my faith recently, not so much my belief in the existance of God or Christ as the messiah but my faith, how strong it is, how much does it mean to me am I really Good enough to preach and teach in the name of Christ, who am i to point out the sins of others I have enough of my own to be concerned with I should indeed take the huge giant log out own eye before I proceed to take the splinter out of my brothers, That sort of thing.

So let me share with you all what I have learnt these past six months, this is probably more theraputic for me but I hope it is interesting for you.

I dont know if any of you have ever heard the bible described as a love story "the greatest Love Story" etc but so often it seems like a giant rule book a threatening outdated manuscript trying to scare people with hell and torment.... dont do that or you will go to hell and how often do parents and teachers use this to control children.... where the hell is the love in that!!!!

The bible reads like a horror story if your homosexual your going to hell, if your rich your going to hell, if you have killed someone your going to hell, sh*t man, even if you like bacon your going to hell.

Yes that God indeed is a vengful God, human beings make a mistake and we are banished from him and lets face it with all them rules, stipulations who of us can indeed expect to attain heaven, navarna, Valkarie call it what you will?

We are sinners, yes i am a sinner, yes you are a sinner the quicker we as human beings can accept that the faster we can move on, there is nothing we can do about it.

But the bible that Christians see is a love story, a story of True love, TRUE love. not some whimsical holywood romance. They see the imposiblity of the old testiment rules, that Vengful God.

But in the new testiment they not only see another side of God, but God is given a name. That name is not Jesus, but Love, god is love and love is God one and the same, the holy trinity , the father of love, the son of love and the spirit of love, 3 persons one love.

Jesus reveals this love to mankind, he suffers what he need not suffer in order that we do not need to suffer what we would have had to suffer had he not suffered what he did. Jesus died and went to hell so that we dont have to.... that is love.

What was it that brought him out of hell, what caused his ressurection, God..i.e love, Jesus was love personified, he was love in the form of a person, he was true love, true man.


When we love, that is God within us, That love shares the imortality of god because it is God, it is our love that is ressurected after death, it is our love that becomes a holy spirit and our hatred that is destroyed in the fires of hell, I am sure after we die we go through a process by which we become purged (purgatory) of our sinfulness, purified and made like the finest gold, the wheat seperated from the chaff.

When a man loves another man, is he going to hell, that love is going to heaven, when a woman loves her unborn child so much she would rather kill him that make him suffer her in ability to care for him, is she going to hell, no that love is going to heaven.

True Love is sacraficial, when one man loves another man and he is willing to sacrafice his social status, his familys respect, perhaps even his eternal life for the person he loves... is that not true love?

The homosexual act is a sin, but the love is 100% direct from God and will be ressurected.

Christianity is not so much about rules and regulations as people tend to think, its about love, what i believe to be true love, sacraficial love, the love Jesus showed for us and he asks each human being today what he asked Peter "do you love me?" Jesus was love, he loved us all but Jesus was a man too and like all human beings he wanted to be loved.... "do you love me?"

and when he was about to die he said, if you love me, you will follow what i command and he left us this new commandment.... to love each other as he loved us.

Yes Jesus was and is love, he is the way of love, the true love that leads to the ressurected life.


"love with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul"

"love your enemies"

"love your neighbour as yourself"

This message of love was what Jesus taught, this is why he was killed, why he was crucified, and this message of love is why christians are being chastised, riddiculed and accused of all sort of falsehoods... becuase when a christian points out the homosexual act is a sin, or abortion is a sin, he or she is expecting and appealing to a higher power with in all of us, love, god within us and the belief in the love that Christ has shown us, and a love for that love..i.e a love for Christ

So when a christian says homosexual act is a sin or abortion is a sin, he is not condemning anyone to hell but calling them to a love of Christ. Ineffect the christian speaks en personi christi, he/she speaks in the person of christ and asks "do you love me?"
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Darkmoon
replied on April 28th, 2008
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I think the problem is that what you see as harmless or helpful preaching, people of other spiritual beliefs see as blatant insults. Insinuating that a person's sexuality is an abomination because your specific religion says so will rarely win them over to your side. If someone insulted you and turned around and asked you to join their religion which they believe gave them free reign to insult you, how would you react?

Just as you're content with your faith, so are others. They aren't going to care what your God says any more than you care what Cernunnos or Buddha or Shiva says. I think a lot of Christians take it for granted that everyone believes in the same God they do, or they don't see their preaching as harmful because they have the privilege of being the majority and thus aren't constantly bombarded with the rhetoric of a religion they don't believe in.

If it troubles you when people react with hostility to what is to them an insult, perhaps you should consider how you'd feel if the shoe were on the other foot. What you see as "being a good Christian", others see as tyrannical obsession to control others, rude arrogance, intolerance and a sense of entitlement. I'm sure if another religion were the majority and you were subjected to discrimination by them you would feel much the same.
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Gu£st
replied on April 29th, 2008
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There is no such thing as a good Christian, just bad christians and a Good God.

Can you not see the love of Christ in the gospels and the rest of the new testiment, even if the bible were fiction, even if it were merely a romance novel, then surely this type of love is worth believing in, have you ever loved somone enough to lay down your life for them even if they dont love you, do you believe that kind of love can exist and can not die, cause i sure do and Jesus is our light, the example we look to.

Homosexual sex is a sin, but so is many other things we are all sinners, alll have sinned and fell short of the glory of God, but it doesnt matter any more, Love is our salvation, Love does no harm to its neighbour and therefore love is our salvaion.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not SELF-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in wrong but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
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cmyked
replied on April 29th, 2008
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Hey, I sent you a PM.
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killbill
replied on April 29th, 2008
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When it comes to the homosexuality question, I think it is unfortunate that it is an issue that is dividing churches and making many question their faith. There is a really great article here:

http://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.p hp

that talks about this issue from a Christian perspective in a loving and open minded way that I think anyone could benefit from reading. I would encourage anyone to read it, Christian or non. I agree with many of the arguments in it and it shows that there is a way to be loving and accepting in a Christian context without rejecting the Word.

Check it out.
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Birch
replied on April 29th, 2008
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I admire you for questioning your faith.

Maybe a less literal interpretation of the Bible would help you?

Guest wrote:
am I really Good enough to preach and teach in the name of Christ, who am i to point out the sins of others I have enough of my own to be concerned with I should indeed take the huge giant log out own eye before I proceed to take the splinter out of my brothers, That sort of thing.


Well, that's the problem with this set-up. No one is good enough (we are all sinners) & you constantly have to strive to be better. What would happen in a work setting if your boss was constantly telling you you weren't good enough for the job? Issues of authority and power would erode your self-esteem and you would give up more of yourself, striving for an ideal that is nonexistant.

I believe we are each a god/dess, with as much potential as any spiritual being to effect the lives of those around us.
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killbill
replied on April 29th, 2008
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My spiritual leader never points out my sins or anyone's for that matter. I think she would consider that a real waste of time. She teaches me about Christ and the bible and gives me advice on how to have hope and live God's Word (love) in my every day life and is a leader when it comes to working for justice in our community. I think most people have a general idea of when they are living sinfully because it effects your spirit in a negative way. We all sin from time to time, it is our human nature to do so. To sin is to turn away from God who is love and hope and strength. So when we are in sin we are full of despair and hate and weakness. Our spritual leader should be someone who helps us to turn back in the right direction to where we are our best selves, loving, giving, striving for peace and justice for all and knowing it is possible to live with hope for a better world by working toward it every day. We forgive others for their trespasses as we would be forgiven. That is who God wants us to be.

And that is not to say that it is wrong to feel weak or hopeless from time to time!! Who on earth doesn't? But to dwell in that place all the time is not right and it is not what God wants for us.
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homerx
replied on April 29th, 2008
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I don't think the homosexual act is a sin nor an act...its real life and sex between 2 people in love is life affirming....its a good thing. Why spend your time in this life worrying about the next?? I try to be a good person because that is what I want to be, not in hope of getting some reward when its all over. If your a good person with a kind and forgiving heart then God is going to love you and accept you, no matter if you are gay or straight or trans or asexual or black or white or handicapped or rich or poor or an atheist or whatever...God isn't in the church any more than he is in the bar or on the corner...study the bible 24/7/365 and that makes you some one who knows the bible backwards and forwards but that doesn't make you any better or any smarter or any closer to God than the fool in the gutter who has never heard of a bible. Good is as good does..God is everywhere and he isn't sitting there with a hammer to pulverize us when we fall from his grace...
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homerx
replied on April 29th, 2008
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killbill wrote:
When it comes to the homosexuality question, I think it is unfortunate that it is an issue that is dividing churches and making many question their faith. There is a really great article here:

http://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.p hp

that talks about this issue from a Christian perspective in a loving and open minded way that I think anyone could benefit from reading. I would encourage anyone to read it, Christian or non. I agree with many of the arguments in it and it shows that there is a way to be loving and accepting in a Christian context without rejecting the Word.

Check it out.

thanks killbill...that was a good read ... respect 2thumbs you know, Jesus Christ himself never even mentions the word homosexual...not once. He obviously didn't have a problem with it...
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Jules
replied on April 30th, 2008
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Re: Been Having Trouble With My Faith
Gu£st wrote:
Jesus died and went to hell


Did he?! I admit it's been a while since my Divinity GCSE but I didn't know that! Shocked
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Beline
replied on April 30th, 2008
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Yes, he did. He was tortured to death on earth, and then He had three days in hell to look forward to when He died. In my denomination, we celebrate Easter on the Friday, and then we celebrate his resurrection as well.
Thank you for your post Guast. My best friend in the whole world is as gay as a fruitcake, and I love him more than life itself. I never could even fathom him going to hell as he is the most amazing giving, loving, caring person alive. Personally, I believe there is a special place in heaven for gays, because they have suffered so much discrimination and hurt here.
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homerx
replied on April 30th, 2008
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Laughing Laughing Beline...U R So funny! gay as a fruit cake!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing by the way, I am gay and not offended by that analogy in the least...its funny! Laughing Laughing voices respect

and thanks for the sweet words and for standing up for my people! You rock!
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Beline
replied on April 30th, 2008
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I know you’re gay. My friend says that’s the only reason I love you so much. Otherwise I just would have liked you.
To tell you the honest to God truth: I have no idea what ‘gay as a fruitcake’ means. Lol. He just always refers to himself that way. But he is quite comfortable with his sexual orientation. He would say things like: ‘Dang it, Woman ! You look so sexy in that pair of jeans I feel like turning straight’ or ‘I did a bit of waitressing when I was a student’.
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homerx
replied on April 30th, 2008
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Laughing Laughing Laughing cute... Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Gu£st
replied on May 1st, 2008
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Before JC heaven wasnt "open" to the General public, JC had to go into hell to "preach to those in prison" get St Joseph and John the Baptist etc all those who had died before he was glorified.
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meblonde01
replied on May 1st, 2008
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And because he died and went to hell even sinner we are forgiven. If not then his blood was shed for nothing. But I feel if I sinned over and over knowing it was indeed wrong in God's eyes, Then that would be considered a harden heart and I don't think I would see heaven.
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marvel
replied on May 1st, 2008
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Jesus came here to teach us how to love unconditionally. Whether or not he's God's son, or a divine messiah or whatever... that was his purpose. I think when people are living this unconditional love (whether they're gay or had an abortion or are Hindu or Muslim) they live the ideal life in the eyes of whoever the big guy/girl in the sky is. It doesn't matter who you have sex with, or what 'holy' book you follow, or what gender you love romantically or what statues you have been brought up to exalt or realise as divine.... it's about how you embody love. I don't know how it got so complicated (well, I think I do, but that's a whole novel) but people need to think of the simplicity of it without all the politics and loopholes.
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Gu£st
replied on May 1st, 2008
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I agree with you marvel, but that is only half the purpose, its the 2nd half, that can not be attained without the 1st half, that 1st half is a love for God. If you read some bibles the first and 2nd commandments are sometimes joined, interwoven because really they are one and the same.

1st Comes a love of God.

Love the lord your god with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your soul and love your neighbour as yourself.

True love only exists through God, if we can not love God who then can we love. If we love God we will want to please him or at least not hurt him, we do that by respecting and trying to live according to his wishes. Its only when we love god are we empowered to love our neighbour according to the true love shown by Jesus Christ.
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homerx
replied on May 1st, 2008
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One of my best friends is atheist. He is one of the most loving and giving people on this planet. You could trust him with anything..He will not be going to hell just because he doesn't believe in a book or a character in a book.I don't believe you can be a wonderful loving caring person and you will burn in a place called hell forever just because you believe in science and not creationism. I think that is kind of horrible and cruel and mean to look at some one and say " You are not worthy and you will burn in hell because you don't believe what I believe". There are still people on this planet who have never seen a bible or heard of JC and I can not believe they are going to a place called hell just because some one says they are. I don't believe true love can only exist threw God. Some people who have chosen not to believe or who have never heard of such a thing are still capable of true love. Thats one of the things about the religious right that really bothers me...they pick and chose what to quote and what to leave in and what to leave out. Judge not lest ye be judged doesn't apply to them... Rolling Eyes By the way, I am Christian but I haven't the right to force my beliefs on someone who doesn't want to hear it or who has there own opinions about God. Catholics vs Baptists vs Mormons vs Scientology vs Muslims vs Jews vs Buddhist vs Church Of Christ and on and on....it isn't what you believe that natters,its being a good person and living right and treating your fellow man with respect that matters. Talk talk talk and where does that get you? Lead by example and done hate.
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Gu£st
replied on May 1st, 2008
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Homerx, there is so many misunderstandings, misconceptions and inaccuracies in your post I am just going to over look them and focus on your overall point.

I am sure there are athiests going to go to heaven and some who wont be, some religious people going to heaven and some who wont be. When God = love and love = God then yes true love comes from God and can only exist through God even if we dont believe any love that is within us comes from God and is infact God loving through us, God does not need us to believe in him in order for him to work through us.

It is more important that God believes in us than we believe in him
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