Join Our Community!
Share
Conditions and Diseases > Back Pain Forum > Back pain radiates to knee
What structures make up the spine? We review basic spine anatomy here...before identifying potential causes of back pain....
Click here to learn about the most common causes of back pain, and things that increase your risk of backache. We cover lower back pain and upper back pain....
Back pain symptoms may seem obvious. But do you know when symptoms of back pain are more serious or when to see a doctor? Learn what action to take & when...
Avatar
Q: Back pain radiates to knee
asked by: falfiee on August 20th, 2008
New User
First, let me apologize, this is going to be long, but I so need to vent my frustration. My problems started about 3 years ago when I suddenly began having severely sharp pain which seemed to radiate from my knee to my ankle, only at night. It felt as though it was deep in the middle of my bones and I could not sleep for it. I went to my GP who tried giving me various pain meds such as vicadin, which didn't even begin to touch it, so I just never refilled it, why take it if it won't do more than tylenol. Meantime I limped along, exhausted and dreading bedtime. Unfortunately my GP was quite old, went to him for 30 years and he became disabled and was put in a nursing home by his awful son, but that's another story. I had to change doctors and began going to a woman my sister goes to. This was during the second year of this going on. She prescribed Nerurontin and also diagnosed me as being Bipolar, which I may or may not be as I was so depressed from lack of sleep and pain, for which she prescribed Seroquel. The pain literally stopped! I was estatic! It was heaven, for about 3 months and then it was back with a vengeance along with lower back pain. She tried doubling and then tripling the neurontin to no avail. Could not tolerate triple the dose, it made me fuzzy is the only way I can think to describe it.

Anyway, this went on for another 6 months until last August when I literally went to pieces in her office. I mean literally I ended up in a sobbing heap on the floor of the examining room, so she took me off work and sent me for xrays and then an MRI. The xray was not entirely surprising, I have arthritic changes and a slightly bulging disc. The MRI shows stenosis, so she sent me to a neurologist (took almost 8 weeks to get into her) but she looked at the MRI and said I have 2 exposed nerves and also said it showed a tear in the spinal tissue. She recommended an epidural injection to try to help the pain, that took over a month to get arranged and during that time Met Life made me go back to work. When I finally got called with that they scheduled an appointment for the epidural injection It was less than a weeks notice and I got wrote up at work for not having scheduled it by the 10th of the month before, which is what my manager requires. (this manager had also wrote me the month I went out on fmla for refusing to run during a team meeting exercise)

I had the epidural and it was awful, it was painful and during it pain shot down my left leg with which I had not had any trouble with and has not gone away. I swore I would not have another one and I would just have to learn to live with it. No way was I risking more pain, I had enough already. They did finally give me a note so work would let me have a chair so I can sit and rest once in a while when I'm not with a customer.

In the meantime it is now very uncomfortable to drive (and I have an hours drive both ways to work and back), it causes my back to hurt, pain starts shooting down my thighs, my buttocks and between my legs and my feet go numb and I end up with a throbbing headache.

About a week ago, I was at work, actually it started out to be a pretty good day, then I noticed just above my right knee, all the way around my leg in about a 3 inch wide area, it was numb. I thought well, this is something new, how weird. Then my left foot and on the inside of my left leg up to my knee went numb. It sounds strange but at this point, well, I'm just almost fasinated. I'm thinking wow, this is just so weird. I walked over and sat down and sent my husband a text about it, again just saying how weird this is, then I got really thirsty, so I got up to go behind the wall to get a drink and had to literally think about moving my legs, they felt, almost wooden is the only way I can describe it. I'm still kind of fasinated at this point and again thought what the heck is this nonsense, so I decided maybe I better let my manager know, my husband was wanting to come and get me because he was concerned, although at that point I wasn't concerned at all, just almost mesmerized. So I started back to the back offices and could barely walk, I mean I had to force my wooden legs to move and by the time I got back there, my left cheek had gone numb. He was in his office with someone else, I don't even know who it was and looked up and exclaimed are you alright. I told him my legs were numb and at that point started to collapse and then became very nauseous. They got me into a chair and wanted to call an ambulance but I wouldn't let them. At this point I'm scared, I know my husband is on his way, the right side of my face had gone numb and I thought I was on the way out. As strange as it sounds, I didn't want to die in an ambulance with strangers. By the time I got to the er my legs were not working well, but a little better and the numbness in my face had moved to the top of my head, my forehead and my nose.
My husband went in to get someone with a wheel chair and honestly, this had to be the worst er anywhere. He wheels me inside puts me in a line and leaves me, when I finally get up to the window and we explain what is going on the RN see's someone behind me, tells us to wait, closes the window and opens the window behind me and starts checking in people there! I couldn't believe it and had to keep trying to calm my husband down. She finally comes back to me, takes my name, and of course my insurance card, gives me a pager and tells my husband to take me to the waiting room. Almost an hour later, they come and get me, take my blood pressure and temp and finally decide to take me back to a cubicle where I wait another 45 minutes for an ER doctor who tries to make me stand on my toes (I couldn't) on my heels ( I tried) and orders a brain scan, lung xrays, an EKG and blood work. 3 Hours later she comes back and wants me to have a stress echo because she says her concern is my heart. I can walk, but very slowly so they decide to do it with drugs, not a fun event. Then another 2 hours goes by and a nurse comes in, tells me my tests were fine and discharges me. By this time my kids are there, and furious, my husband is furious, I'm drained and I just want to go home, it's ok if I die ( I didn't verbalize this to my family of course) cause I'm just tired of living this way. Life has really become a burden. I mean come on, if I sit very long it's uncomfortable, I can't walk very far, I can't sleep for because it's worse at night, and now my durn fingertips are numb all the time. Since then too I get awful cramping pain in my toes and the pads of my feet.
So now I have another appointment on Sept 11th with the neurologist which I really think is a waste of time, but I'm going to try it, and I think I'm going to tell her, if she can't fix me so I can comfortably work and do my job, if I can only sleep after I'm so exhausted my body has no choice, if the little time off I have with my family I'm so wore out I might as well not be there, then it's time for this old mare to go to greener pastures. I've never in my life had to ask someone else to lift something or had to wait for one of the kids to visit so I could ask them to move a sofa so I could vacumn, and half the time I don't even have the energy left to do it, I'm so drained. I can't let my husband do it, he's had 3 heart attacks, not to mention losing a kidney to cancer. I have to work to keep insurance for him. I'm just at the end of my ability to tolerate it.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Replies(11)
Avatar
RichT
replied on August 21st, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
Hello Falifiee,

Welcome to this forum!!!!

Permit me to read through your post a few times so that I better understand. I will try to give you my thoughts later this evening or tomorrow.

Take care.

RichT
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
RichT
replied on August 21st, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
Hello Falfiee,

Thank you for sharing your pain and your experiences. It REALLY HURT to read what you have been through.

Falfiee, I am not a doctor, just a spiney like most here. So please take my thoughts with that understanding.

It is most unfortunate that you have not had the medical care that in my opinion you should have had. AND that the care you have had has been slow to come.

I'm glad that you have at least had x-rays and MRIs taken. Also that you have been to an neurologist.

So sorry to read about the NEW pain you have experienced from the epidural injection you received from the neurologist.

NO WAY in the four epidurals that I have had have I experienced anything like you have. Sure some initial discomfort but really nothing more. My pain management doc gives me my epidural injections, just like he did today. The guy is FANTASTIC!!!! I only wish you had such a doctor.

The treatment you have and still are receiving at work is HORRID!!!! It really disturbs me.

I hesitate to say this, however, I do so because of your back pain and very long commute. Falfiee, may I suggest that you look for closer employment with a more caring employer, and one that has excellent health benefits. It is my understanding that if you can "overlap" insurance policies, the new plan must take you, and take you even though you have a preexisting medical condition. DO check this out very very well before you make a change.

Falfiee, PLEASE, search for the very best spinal surgeon who you can find in your area, and who is under your current insurance policy. You need the VERY BEST medical care. Please send me a PM so that we can communicate on this in more detail.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

RichT
Did you find this post useful?
|
Users who thank RichT for this post: falfiee 
Avatar
falfiee
replied on August 26th, 2008
New User
Thank You RichT
I'm sorry not to have answered before now. have not really felt like being on. How do you PM? I haven't been able to figure it out.
thanks
falf
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
RichT
replied on August 26th, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
Hello Falf,

How to send a PM (private message) - First sign on like you are going to post on a thread. Then towards the top of the page you will see "private messages". Click on this and it will take you to your PMs.

To send a PM to me, go to the Back Pain forum. Click on your thread. Then click on "post reply". Sign in and click on "log in". That will take you back to your thread. On the upper left hand side of the page click on "Back Pain". This will take you back to the Back Pain forum. Now click on your thread again. Next click on "RichT". This will take you to my profile. Click on "send him a message". And away you GO!! Oh yes, you do need to add a "subject". Sounds round about, and it is.

If you have an difficulties, do let me know.

Take care.

RichT
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
littleonefb
replied on August 27th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy (online)
Hi Flalfee

Like Rich, I am not a doctor, or a medical person, just another spiney with lots of experience unfortunately, and some opinions as well.

First of all, Rich has a wonderful idea for you to find a job closer to home. The problem with that, though, is that in your present condition, you will not be able to find another job. Until you have your spine problems dealt with, no one will hire you like this.

So that leaves us with the next situation, and that is the lack of medical care, appropriate medical care that you are getting to find out what the best course of treatment is for you spine problems.

I'm not sure what the doctor meant by saying " I have 2 exposed nerves and also said it showed a tear in the spinal tissue."
I have never heard of anything called exposed nerves or tears in spinal tissue, so I am going to venture a guess in what that means and please remember, I am not a doctor, nurse or anything else.

exposed nerves? how about it means that you have compression of nerves in 1 or more vertebrae.

tear in spinal tissue? that could be a tear in a disc. some people think of discs as part of spinal tissue.

spinal stenosis can be caused by discs moving out of place, putting pressure on the nerves and if herniated, then some disc fluid is leaking out and irritating nerves in the spinal column.

Was your epidural done by a well trained PM doctor and did he/she use a floroscope to do the epidural?
The reason I ask is that it sounds like you did not have a PM doctor that used a floroscope to see where to inject the steroid and some of the symptoms you have had since the epidural was done could be from the steroid not being injected into the correct location and it has spread to nerve areas that it shouldn't be spreading to.
When an epidural is given into the correct location, the steroid spreads up and down from where the injection was given. If it was put in the wrong location, then it will irritate nerves and cause more pain, instead of less.

The fact that you have had all these additional symptoms, indicates to me that either the steroid has just made your spinal problems worse ie the pain, which it can do or it was not given correctly and steroid is going into the wrong areas.

You say that you are seeing a neurologist. do you mean a neurosurgeon? If you are seeing a neurologist, then it is the wrong kind of doctor to be seeing. You need to see a specialist in spines; either an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in spines only or a neurosurgeon that specializes in spines only.

Did the doctor tell you what vertebrae where involved in the stenosis ? The numbness in hands and fingers and headaches could be from cervical stenosis, or it could be from the epidural itself. The thing and knee pain and numbness could be from the L3/4 vertebrae and going down to you leg and feet and it could be stenosis in the L4/L5.

What you need more than anything right now is to try to take a deep breath and relax a bit, easier said than done, I know. Then you need to arm yourself with your GP/PCP and tell her that you demand she send you to a spine specialist for correct diagnosis and proper treatment. And you need to have some other PM doctor that gives epidurals. You should not have had any pain in getting that at all. At most a bit of discomfort and you can have medication given that will knock you out long enough to have the epidural done and then be fine right after it is done. At the very least you should have had lidocaine to numb the area first.

Keep us posted and you can PM me as well.

Fran
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
RichT
replied on August 27th, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
Hello Falf,

How is your day going today? Hope a bit better.

Fran has asked some very good questions, and I hope you are willing to respond to her questions. For a spiney her knowledge and "food for thought" wisdom is amazing. Do "hear" her thoughts.

Now with that build up of Fran, I'll "counter" one thing she said regarding finding a new job at this time.

I'm an optimist, and will never say something can't be done. I spent 17 years in research disproving people who said "it can't be done". SOOOooo, don't let Fran discourage you from trying to find a new job. Just go out and prove her wrong!!! Smile Falf, be POSITIVE, and you will be amazed at the unseen doors that can open for you. Go with the attitude "Let me show you how much I can contribute to your company today and with proper spinal care be even more of an asset tomorrow." Get the idea? I'm sure you do!!

I wish you the very best.

RichT
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
falfiee
replied on August 29th, 2008
New User
Rich T and Fran
Perhaps the doctor (I'm not sure if I am supposed to say her name or not so I removed it) was trying to dumb it down for me, I can tell you that I remember her pointing to an area on one of the MRI films pointing out the nerve, here and here and telling me it was the same nerve but you could see 2 different area's on it. She did also pointed out another area that she said was a tear, which she said she herself had missed, a colleague who was looking at the films with her caught it and pointed it out to her, I thought she said it was in the lining of the spinal column, but I could be mistaken, partly because I was not then, nor am I now humming on all 8 cylinders, and partly because my husband was also there and is very very hard of hearing and I was also trying to relay what she was saying and answer the questions he was asking me. I do remember regarding the tear that she is told it is incredibly painful, tell me about it.

I had another round the last 2 days, sometime during the night tuesday night I was awakened with the pain in my legs and was in the process of reaching under the edge of my bed trying to retrieve my houseslipper and I sneezed. OMG! Pain shot everywhere it seemed like. It was bad enough that I took 2 of the tramadol that I have left, even though it doesn't seem to help more than ibuprophen, and I took 4 of them too before it was over and tried to finally go back to sleep, which never did happen, but I called off work. Didn't endear me to the assistant working that day. But the worst of the acute pain finally subsided, but the tops of my legs were both numb feeling. I'm gunshy on er's so I called my doctor who said she could see me at 10:00 Wednesday morning. My daughter drove me down, it's about a 20 minute drive.

Well, she pretty well lamblasted me for not having gone back to the neurology surgeon before now. I tried to explain to why I hadn't and she informed me it was normal for the first shot and perhaps even 2nd or 3rd to either not help or seem to make things worse and that I hadn't put in the work and stick with it to be upset or concerned that things weren't better or be upset that they are getting worse. When she asked me about the other meds, she seemed upset that I had gone back to the lower dosage of neurontin because 900 or even 600 mg of it makes me fuzzy and stupd and that I wasn't taking the seroquel because more than half the time I didn't have enough time to sleep it off before having to be up and back at work. My schedule most of the time has me closing at 8:30, an hours drive home and then being back anywhere from 7:30 to 8:30 am the next day, I'd end up late for work 2 or 3 days a week, and that'd get me fired. She didn't seem to be interested in discussing an alternative to that but she did prescribe darvocet n-100 to try for the pain, and I was able to sleep through last night, and that was first time in many months, but I still left in tears. To top my day off I returned home to a letter from the neurologist office that my appointment had been moved from the 11th to the 15th.
I spent today at work with my numb legs and pins and needles in my feet. It's weird though, it's like the skin is numb, but if I rub them really hard I can hit sore spots in some places. This is so quickly getting to the point where it just seems like way to much.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
littleonefb
replied on August 29th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy (online)
falfiee,

I'm so sorry you are having so much pain and it appears that your doctors are not very understanding as well.

After reading your last post, it sounds like your symptoms of numbness on the front of your thighs is coming from the L3/L4 disc and vertebrae. When that area of the nerves in the spine are compressed, you get the pain that travels down from the side of your back, just below your waist, moves to the side of your hip and then to the front of the thigh. The front of the thigh will be numb, burning, tingling all the way to the knee all on the front. And yes, it's like the skin is numb and if you press or rub hard on the thigh it hurts in some places.

I know that feeling all to well, just got rid of that part of my problem on June 27th 2008.

Another thing is that it can make the leg feel so weak and the pain get so bad that the leg or legs can't support you and you land on the floor. I was doing that all the time.

I do agree that you should return to, what sounds like, the neurosurgeon that you are seeing and let the neurosurgeon know what is going on, what has happened and get a more definitive diagnosis.
If the doctor can't explain to you, to your satisfaction, why all this has happened after you had the epidural, and tell you what the risk would be do have another one, I would not have this doctor do one again. Also, I would be sure that if you do have another ESI, that you have some kind of sedation to have it done and be sure that the doctor does use floroscopy when it is done.

I also think it is time for you to get another opinion or your spine. It never hurts to get at least one more opinion, a fresh set of eyes is always good and with the problems that you had with the ESI, I would get another doctor for this as well.

As for the treatment by, what sounds like your GP, there was no excuse for treating you that way, insulting you or anything else and have you leave the office in tears.
If it where me, I would not tolerate that kind of treatment from anyone, let alone my doctor. Sounds like it's time you got a new GP as well.

Good luck

Fran
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
falfiee
replied on August 29th, 2008
New User
Thank You Fran, it does help a little to talk about it, and I appreciate your knowledge, at least I know I'm not nuts on top of everything else, well, maybe a little nuts Smile. At least I know there is someone out there who knows I'm not imagining things. And I think you're correct about my GP, I couldn't believe her attitude. I'm going to start looking for a new one immediately.

thanks again.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
RichT
replied on August 30th, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
Hello Falfiee,

RIGHT ON!!!!! Do look for another doctor, and ESPECIALLY the best spinal surgeon you can find.

Falfiee, I must admit I was somewhat disappointed that you didn't respond to looking for a new job. I really believe you need to do so. Continue with those 1 hour drives to and from work and the working conditons you are in and honestly, I'm very concerned that it won't be long and you won't be able to make those drives or work PERIOD!!! That is not what I want to see happen to you. I will try to help in any way I can.

RichT
Did you find this post useful?
|
Avatar
falfiee
replied on September 1st, 2008
New User
Rich,

I have started another job search, the problem is anything in the small town where I live is going to pay half what I make with that hour commute, and most have little or no medical insurance coverage. It's going to be a long tedious process I'm afraid.
Did you find this post useful?
|
Quick Reply
Search