I don't think it is either selfishness or delusion. Nor do I think a lot of these situations are tragic. It is personal choice. A lot of people are not capable of giving away such a huge part of themselves. It isn't wrong or right. It just is.

I do believe that you should channel some of the energy you feel about teens and pregnancy into some type of outreach within your community. There are pregnant teens who are in need of some kind of services - whether it be counseling about pregnancy, support, shelter, clothing, food - you name it, they need it. You could make a real difference.

its like ingi said, a choice and also a bond one feels while pregnant with their child.
not necessesarily a selfish act or delusion, some may not be prepared but with some giudance and support i feel most do just fine.

personally, if i couldnt have the baby, i'd rather go through with adoption. i could never have an abortion myself
of course it is very hard to give up your own child when youve already given birth to the baby. thats probably why it isnt considered

I do get some of what she's saying though it does depend on the situation, let's say theres a 15 year old girl father leaves so what? Her parents should provide for her and her baby?

Or the 18 year old girl who is trying to finish school, only has a part time job who is paying for the rest of it?

Not saying that this is how it ends up in every situation, but not everyone has the money to raise a child when they are teens.

I think a lot of people prefer abortion because (for lack of better words) once its done its done. You may feel guilty and think what if, but with adoption you carry the baby for 9 months, feel it kick on a daily basis and it is part of your life for that 9 months. Then once the time comes to give the baby up, the birth mother would be constantly wondering what type of life the baby is having and i believe it would be a lot more emotional in the long run. When you turn 40 years old and you think back to when you had an abortion you can possibly accept that it was the right thing to do at the time if it was your decision to have the abortion. However with an adoption at 40 years old (if you havent already had contact with your child) you would be constantly thinking different scenarios of your childs life and face the possibilty of rejection if you do become reunited etc.........

just my thoughts

i just dont understand why people feel that killing their child is preferable to giving it to another family. there is an old story that is essentially the follows:
a long time ago in a remote kingdom there were 2 women who approached the court both claiming to be the mother of an infant. both claimed that they loved the child more than anything and that it was their blood. the king thought for a moment and said "to solve this problem i will cut the child in 2 and you can both have half". one woman accepted the decision, while the second was so mortified that she let her 'half' go so even if she couldnt have the child, at least it would be alive and safe. with that, the king deemed the woman who was willing to let the child go as the true parent. regarless of blood, she was the true mother because of her intent and actions.
we know that babies have heartbeats weeks into the pregnancy, respond to stimuli, and even have memories from being in utero. why is it that once a baby is born that it is a human, why should it be less of a being just because of its location?
i think many of these girls are shamed into getting an abortion. they dont want any one to find out and they dont want to lose out on 'their life'.
why is it that abortions are legal and acceptable, but infancide isnt considered disgusting when the only difference may be just a few hours time?
also, how often have we heard about late term abortions and the baby has lived... that is horrible.
and on a completely selfish note, i wish people would consider adoption more, maybe then i wouldnt have to wait so long to be placed > stupid waiting....

and on another note, i am not religious, but i am spiritual and i always wonder what is in store for someone who has an abortion. if homicide is an unforgivable sin, is abortion that as well?
my first son died of meningitis and i would give everything if he could be alive and well, even if it were with another family. maybe that is just me.
hrmm, it says that i have typed a censored word, but i cant figure out what it is.... i didnt think i wrote anything bad....

just to be upfront so that no one thinks i am being unfair, when i was 19 i had an abortion. at the time i thought i was miscarrying due to bleeding and i thought i was going in for a D&C, right before i went in they did an ultrasound to see if their was a heartbeat and i was sure there wouldnt be. to my horror they found one and then wheeled me to my room. i only had minutes to figure things out and i was so scared. im sure that if i had 30 more seconds i would have ran out of that place but i didnt. i was confused and uneducated on fetal development and now it haunts me to this day. i will never forgive myself for not running away with my baby, and i think that when my time comes, i will be judged and deservingly at that. it is my constant shame. i always wonder what life would have been if that baby had lived, what it would look like, who they would be... i never imagined i could ever kill anyone or anything, and here i sit with an evil smear on my soul. perhaps my baby would have died anyhow from the bleeding problem, but regardless as its mother i should have done everything to protect it, not hand it over to the lions.
now, i have had years to comtemplate this situation and to try and pay for my sins i try to discourage that which haunts me from occuring to anyone else. a punishment suitable to the crime...
these are just my own feelings regarding my personal experience. i hope i havnt offended anyone.

falafal4ever81, to be honest, I don't believe that story for a minute. You don't call an abortion clinic and make an appointment for an abortion, and confuse it with getting a d&c after a miscarriage.

That may be the story you tell yourself and others, but it doesn't fly here.

they wouldn't force you to make a choice in 30 seconds =\ .. it just doesn't work like that, espically not with a pregnant teen

falafal4ever81 have you got kids????

i know that if from the very start you know u cant afford this child then its in your hands to decide. after 9 months of carrying if u believe adoption is the best. you will not want to let go of that baby. all your life you will be regreting giving it away and you will always hope that one day they may come back and ask for answers. whats your answer??? you cudnt aford them?? i would be gutted to think that they never tried!.

sometimes abortion is the answer before the question is even asked! that childs not fully developed and no where neer it. to be honest if i had to choose it would be abortion although i am not for it at all. i couldnt give a kid of mine up for adoption.

its a pain that will never go away

but if you cant afford a child or you cant manage a child, or if you have more to experience in life and to grow as a child, would it not be in the childs best intrest to be put up in adoption to a home that loves them and can give them the things they need?
would there not be a pain of having an abortion to a child even though not fully developed but still of your flesh and blood?

Personally, I can see how it would be agonizing to give a child up for adoption. I really don't think I could do it. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be in the best interest of the child, because in many cases it would clearly be better if the child were adopted into a two parent family that could afford it and love it as much as the biological parents would. It's just that even though adoption would be better, I can still see how many people couldn't do it.

As far as abortion goes, (and please let's try not to get this thread locked) in my opinion it is much, much easier than adoption. I had an abortion in college and felt great RELIEF. I never once regretted it. Maybe I've had too many biology courses, but I don't consider a tiny embryo that is less than half of an inch in size, to be anything close to a baby. I realize that many people do, and that's fine for them. I just don't.

i cant imagine having to give my child up for adoption, it would be so hard, i commend anyone who has the stregnth to do it. i never came here asking people for attention, help, advice or anything else so i have no reason to lie. i dont believe in false pretenses so i feel that if i were to talk about thinking abortion is bad without admitting the truth of my past i would feel decietful and that is not who i am.
where i live i didnt call the clinic. my doctor told me with my symptoms (bleeding and pain) that it was most likely a miscarriage or an impending miscarriage. the procedure was done at a hospital and it was a D&C that was arranged, not an abortion. however they are essentially the same thing. and i never said anyone forced me to do it. on the contrary, i admitted that i was uneducated on embryo growth and at that time thought that is wasnt really a 'baby' yet. my opinion has since changed over the years. i have never persecuted anyone for getting an abortion, i know times can be tough and sometimes people believe that their best option is an abortion. the only time i will tell someone something negative about it is when they are using it as a form of birth control instead of a solution for a crisis. i went to school with a girl who had 7 abortions in high school alone. that is terrible.
im sorry if you dont believe what i have to say, but that is your choice. i know i put myself out on the line by admitting my truths, and now i am being judged but i will not fight it, i believe i deserve it in a way. like i said, i feel it is an evil smear on my soul and i will forever regret not running out of that place. i hope that others will find peace with their decisions.

oops, i forgot to finish my sentance. what i was saying is that i didnt call the 'clinic', my doctor asked me if i wanted to try and see if the baby would live or if i wanted to follow through with a D&C. i said i wanted to get a D&C but i had asked to have it booked for 2 weeks later so i could see if the bleeding would stop (it didnt). my doctor was the one who booked it for me and called me to let me know when and where. alot of the details are faded away, this was quite a few years ago and my memory is terrible at best.
i guess what it comes down to is that i cant say for sure wether a fetus is a person or not, but on the off chance that it has a soul or whatever, i wouldnt want to chance killing it again. there are so many thoughts and feelings on the subject i cant always pinpoint what i am feeling, so i generally tend to err on the side of caution. im not here to judge, only try and help so that others can see both sides. if someone has done something shameful they dont tend to let the world know. so many girls here are happy with their decisions, and that is wonderful for them, but for the girls out there who might feel as i do, i would like them to know they arnt weird or wrong. everybody is different, i just dont want people to experience the turmoil that i have gone through. i cried for 2 years over my bad choice, that is a long time to agonize. im not saying it was 2 years straight, but 2 years later, if i were to think about it or see a show about that stuff, i would cry.

I appreciate what you are saying, but I just wanted to point something out.

You said, "i guess what it comes down to is that i cant say for sure wether a fetus is a person or not,"

Whether a fetus is a person or not is an opinion, depending upon one's definition of person. It isn't like the fetus is secretly one thing or another, and medical science just hasn't figured it out yet.

For example, I believe the dictionary, legal definition of person:


So, a person is a human being recognized by law as having rights and duties.

Biblically speaking,
Halacha (Jewish law) does define when a fetus becomes a nefesh (person). "...a baby...becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a 'partial life.' "

You also said, "but on the off chance that it has a soul or whatever,".
Whether or not something has a soul depends upon an individual person's religious beliefs. Many people do not even believe there is such a thing as a soul. In other words, a fetus doesn't secretly get a soul at some point, and medical science just hasn't figured out when, yet. It is up to you to decide when you think something gets a soul. Certain religions have different times when they think ensoulment occurs. Some religions have even changed their view on when this happens.

oooooo very enlightening. i always enjoy conversations that expand my horizons, i guess that is why i generally tend to be very open minded. so many times in history have we believed something to be fact when later it turns out to not be. i believe there is always an exception to every rule as well. i think if i had to pick a mainstream religion it would be the jewish religion, it is so beautiful. i worked security at a temple during the high holidays and everyone was so wonderful. my favorite part was when they all walked to the reservoir and cast the bread upon the water, all the ducks came and ate it. anyhow, there are so many possibilities in life and so many unknows that it is hard to say if anything is for sure. some people believe that a soul is created at conception, and that is what i fear for the fetus', but i dont know. i have heard of a study that said pregnant mothers listened to the same song everyday until they gave birth, then when the song was played for the babies months later they remembered it. the babies would become more relaxed and calmed when it played. i have even heard of others who claim to have memories from in the womb, i find that astounding considering i cant remember what i had for lunch haha.
and to answer a former question, i have one son. i have lost my first pregnancy as i previously described, and my first son died from meningitis when he was very young, but out of my third pregnancy i now have a son who is going to turn 1 very soon. he is precious to me. i hope to adopt a daughter soon. i turned down an adoption in december because the birth family was so far away and i wanted what was best for them, so they found another family to adopt their baby.... a decision i now regret. i fell like i have lost 3 children now, but i have no one to blame but myself for 2 of them. ahhh, now im sad

Don't be sad. Why don't you want to have another one yourself?

wow your thinking is very "odd" to me, first off wouldnt you feel better giveing your baby to someone who would love it and care for it rather then not allowing it to live? i personally have 2 neighbors who both gave a child up for adoption (please dont tell me about the majority or statisics, im not talking about that) they both have very open adoptions, and the neighbor im closest with (lets call her m) she is very very close to her daughter (lets call her k) k knows that m is her biological mothershe even calls her mommy kit (because kit is her nickname) she knows that m couldnt take care of her and that she has another mommy and daddy who could and they all love her so very much, now m has 2 more little girls and k knows that they are her sisters and the girls know that k is their big sister, they see eachother for holidays and birthdays and everything they are always talking on the phone and always there for eachother, personally id rather have that then kill something i made (sorry i know thats one big long paragraph/runon senctance but im on some strong pain killers right now and mix that with my passion for this topic and you get crazy ranty alicia)