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Q: Abortion/death from a religious perspective
asked by: diamondsz on January 24th, 2009
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I know alot of people who are pro-life have a tendency to be religious (minus NU)now according to the bible it says "thou shall not kill" or "Do unto others as you would do to yourself."

Thous shall not kill pretty much follows in all religions, today it is our common law, to kill people, it is an offence except in the cases of war, self-defense, abortion or misc.

Even in the bible it made reference to it being okay to kill people who have sinned, people who have harmed a slave and that revenge is okay as well (Exodus 21:1-and up) is a pretty good idea to read.

Alot of christians like to say abortion is a sin, what if I could use the bible to prove otherwise, would you believe your own religion?

The bible itself denotes woman to being lesser beings;

Corithians chapter 14
"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. "

Timothy Chapter 2

"Also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. "

In Ephesians 5:22-24 "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

In genesis their is reference to woman not having souls....

In order to be allowed passageway to heaven or hell, well any type of afterlife you need a soul "God created us all equally in his image."

Therefore with that being said, technically a woman cannot sin, so even if she does have an abortion she has done nothing wrong because, she is not equal, she has no soul and god is a sexist, should they truly be his words.


AND CHRISTIANS are told to mind their own business and stay out of the lives of others
Thessalonians 4:11-12
"Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody. "


This is VILE
If a man rapes a woman, well its condoned, he just has to marry her
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Polygamy is also condoned in the bible, Genesis 16

So with all this being said, how many of you practice what you preach?

It is following the religions that will allow you into heaven or hell but if you only pick and choose, it wont.....

Religion never said Abortion was wrong, so why do you make it up?

Matthew 17:20

and Jesus says "Nothing will be impossible for you."

Deut 21:18-21
It is okay to kill rebellious teenagers


Leviticus 20:13:
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

So if they conceieved its still okay to kill them.

So should we be allowed to kill half the population because a religion says its okay?

Why aren't they following their religion?


Killing is condoned by the religion that says "thou shall not kill."
****************************************** ****
Genesis 9:6 - Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

Exodus 20:13 - You shall not homicide.

Deuteronomy 27:25a - Cursed is he who accepts a bribe to strike down an innocent person.

Proverbs 6:16-19 - There are six things which the LORD hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood...

See also Exodus 23:7 and Deuteronomy 19:11-12

****************************************** ***************



So, now I will have a bunch of religious people telling me well a theologist knows best and time are different, so we can't interpret it the same way it was written then to now. Well it doesn't take a PHD to figure this one out, as for being educated, it is not limited to a educational establishment ........and now for the kicker!


And for those who like to think "Well times change."
Isaiah 40:8
"The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever."

Just my two cents.....From an ex christian!
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sara19
replied on January 24th, 2009
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This why I think why all Christians have to be part mystics/cherry pickers. It all about how we interpret. I for example think that "thou shall not kill" means just that thou shall not kill for any reason ever, not for rape, not for anything.

One of my philosophies is (I don't remember who said this) "Somethings are worth dying for; but nothing is worth killing for."
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nightangel73
replied on January 24th, 2009
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A problem many people have with interpreting the bible is that they take the words without thinking of the history, the traditions and the culture of that time which are very different to how we live nowadays. Just because the bible says of something that was acceptable at the time doesn't mean it is acceptable nowadays. And you have to interpret the bible under that light.

And that continues to be thruth of the word of God will stand forever. Interpret it the right way.
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diamondsz
replied on January 24th, 2009
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nightangel73 wrote:
A problem many people have with interpreting the bible is that they take the words without thinking of the history, the traditions and the culture of that time which are very different to how we live nowadays. Just because the bible says of something that was acceptable at the time doesn't mean it is acceptable nowadays. And you have to interpret the bible under that light.

And that continues to be thruth of the word of God will stand forever. Interpret it the right way.


So times have changed and abortion has become legal, why havent you changed?

Isaiah 40:8
"The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever."

When you follow a religion you cant just pick and choose, what is the point of following a religion thereforth?

Its like the law, even though times change and the law is the law, does that mean you still have a right to break it, even though you think its unjust?
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sara19
replied on January 25th, 2009
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Because I think life starts at conception. And since I believe that life starts at conception, I couldn't kill one of God's children.


Isaiah 40:8
"The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever."

That quote says to me is that the world changes, but God's word will always lead us right.
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oopoopoop
replied on January 25th, 2009
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Meh. I kind of go for "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Think abortion is a sin? Don't have one. And if someone else has one, let the flying spaghetti monster decide if it's worth a meatball, since it isn't up to you to decide.
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sara19
replied on January 25th, 2009
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I agree with you oopoopoop. Not everyone has my faith. They should be allowed to govern themselves anyway they see fit.

I was just trying to answer the question with my beliefs.
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deteragram
replied on January 26th, 2009
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Diamondsz, I can't address every single point you made- I would be here all day if I tried. But I will say this:
- Not all Christians interpret the Bible the same so I don't think you lump them all together
- Many Christians feel that with Christ's death and resurrection we are no longer bound to SOME of the rules and statutes in the Old Testament (i.e. being unable to eat certain foods and following the rules of cleanness and uncleanness) but we are still expected to obey the Ten Commandments. Also, some of the scriptures had to do with the culture at the time. For example, wearing face paint was a sign that a woman was a prostitute back then but that is not the case today, so I have no problem with a woman wearing makeup.
- Some Christians, including myself, believe that God hates sin and obviously doesn't want us to commit any but disbelief is the only thing that will keep us from heaven. I believe that ALL sins can and will be forgiven if a person repents. That said, we do not have a free pass to do anything we want. We can make wrong choices but there is still a time that we feel condemnation and the need to ask for forgiveness.
- On a more personal note, I don't agree with abortion but don't feel it's my right to keep other people from having one. Just as I would not lobby to make smoking or drinking against the law (even though I don't practice them) I would not picket an abortion clinic. I don't think that any religious group has the right to impose its will on the government. This is a democracy, not a theocracy.
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isaywhatisay
replied on January 26th, 2009
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you know i am christian i have my belifes, and there has to be an upper power, but as far as the bible goes,

the bible was writtin by a man, to a man, and then translated by a man, not the most perfect man jesus christ but by many different men, who thought that they had a calling.

there is no way that every single thing in the bible is all fact, a lot of it is stories of morals... so i dont live by the book, i live life to live and give and take and survive to multiply... i live my life as a good person most the time and i realize sometimes im a sinner, its human nature...

as far as abortion goes, i am against it, unless of coarse in situations where the girl got raped, or something like that happened, but honestly heres where i stand if your grown enough to have sex, protected or not there is still a chance of getting prego, then you better be grown enough to take on your concenquences, if you cant handle baby, then why are you doing what makes a baby?

thats where i stand its nothin of religion its morals, its thinking before acting its called being responsible...

im sorry if this offended anyone, but thats what im thinkin.
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Carolinagirl_16
replied on January 26th, 2009
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From a Christian
There is no way I am even going to try to defend to address every point that you made in this post. I think a lot of the other replies made some good points though.

As for myself. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care what the circumstances. I would never do it. Just in case you were wondering I also do not believe in the death penalty.

Many of the books that you quoted were in the old testament. We are not necessarily supposed to live by those rules anymore. We don't have to offer up burnt animal sacrafices anymore either. You see when Jesus came a lot of that changed.

Submitting to our husbands, hard pill to swallow, but yes that one still stands. Yes he is the head of my household and ultimately he will answer to Jesus for it. But what you left out was that he must love me as he loves Jesus. I think I'm getting the better end of that deal. A good man will not take advantage of the submission clause.

I think the one responder said it all when they said just follow the commandments. They are rules to live by.
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oopoopoop
replied on January 27th, 2009
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Re: From a Christian
Carolinagirl_16 wrote:
There is no way I am even going to try to defend to address every point that you made in this post. I think a lot of the other replies made some good points though.

As for myself. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care what the circumstances. I would never do it. I consider it homicide. Just in case you were wondering I also do not believe in the death penalty.

Many of the books that you quoted were in the old testament. We are not necessarily supposed to live by those rules anymore. We don't have to offer up burnt animal sacrafices anymore either. You see when Jesus came a lot of that changed.

Submitting to our husbands, hard pill to swallow, but yes that one still stands. Yes he is the head of my household and ultimately he will answer to Jesus for it. But what you left out was that he must love me as he loves Jesus. I think I'm getting the better end of that deal. A good man will not take advantage of the submission clause.

I think the one responder said it all when they said just follow the commandments. They are rules to live by.


Go for it, whatever makes you happy. Just don't expect the rest of us to abide by your theocracy. Don't believe in abortion, don't believe in cutting your hair, don't believe in eating meat on Friday -- don't do it. Just don't think that everyone needs to agree with you, and we can all get on just fine.
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motherofhighspiritedones
replied on January 27th, 2009
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Wow. Submissing to my husband. Not going to happen. Ever. He believes, as I believe, that I AM MY OWN PERSON. And as my own person, I am allowed to make decisions for myself AND my family, just like him, and that I don't have to give him what he wants. We COMPROMISE. There is no submission in this household. There is only communication and compromising, which brings out better outcomes. Because we both can reach a decision TOGETHER that we are both HAPPY with. As for abortion, everyone here knows my stance. I DON'T care what anyone else chooses to do for themselves as long as their choices have no interference with my body or my life or my familie's body or their lives. Simple. Don't like abortions, don't have them. But don't go telling everyone else what THEY should do.
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diamondsz
replied on January 27th, 2009
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isaywhatisay wrote:
as far as abortion goes, i am against it, unless of coarse in situations where the girl got raped, or something like that happened, but honestly heres where i stand if your grown enough to have sex, protected or not there is still a chance of getting prego, then you better be grown enough to take on your concenquences, if you cant handle baby, then why are you doing what makes a baby?
.


That is exactly the statement I have a problem with.....

You are telling me not to have sex if I can't handle the outcome, well as an Athesit I see sex as be recreational, so why mus I live up to your beliefs? If I want sex to be pro-creational, than that is my choice, like someone else said reproduction is an option not a function.

So you don't have to tolerate abortion at all or like it, I couldn't care if you don't like it but you have no right in my personal life or anyones for that matter, therefore why do you continue to implement that.

Why should everyone have the same view on sex as you? Why not get along, keep you beliefs to yourself and I will keep mine to myself and will never shove my belief of flying unicorns down your throat.
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Maddie34
replied on January 27th, 2009
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I guess I just don't understand why you are using the OT to justify abortion to Christians.

You're not the first person to do this on here either.
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nightangel73
replied on January 27th, 2009
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diamondsz wrote:
isaywhatisay wrote:
as far as abortion goes, i am against it, unless of coarse in situations where the girl got raped, or something like that happened, but honestly heres where i stand if your grown enough to have sex, protected or not there is still a chance of getting prego, then you better be grown enough to take on your concenquences, if you cant handle baby, then why are you doing what makes a baby?
.


That is exactly the statement I have a problem with.....

You are telling me not to have sex if I can't handle the outcome, well as an Athesit I see sex as be recreational, so why mus I live up to your beliefs? If I want sex to be pro-creational, than that is my choice, like someone else said reproduction is an option not a function.

So you don't have to tolerate abortion at all or like it, I couldn't care if you don't like it but you have no right in my personal life or anyones for that matter, therefore why do you continue to implement that.

Why should everyone have the same view on sex as you? Why not get along, keep you beliefs to yourself and I will keep mine to myself and will never shove my belief of flying unicorns down your throat.


You don't have to live to our beliefs. And abortion is legal so stop whining about it. Do you need approval from us is that it? What do you care what we could think of you? We the christians will have our opinion and you don't need to care about it. Nobody is shoving at all any belief in here to you.
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diamondsz
replied on January 27th, 2009
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nightangel73 wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
isaywhatisay wrote:
as far as abortion goes, i am against it, unless of coarse in situations where the girl got raped, or something like that happened, but honestly heres where i stand if your grown enough to have sex, protected or not there is still a chance of getting prego, then you better be grown enough to take on your concenquences, if you cant handle baby, then why are you doing what makes a baby?
.


That is exactly the statement I have a problem with.....

You are telling me not to have sex if I can't handle the outcome, well as an Athesit I see sex as be recreational, so why mus I live up to your beliefs? If I want sex to be pro-creational, than that is my choice, like someone else said reproduction is an option not a function.

So you don't have to tolerate abortion at all or like it, I couldn't care if you don't like it but you have no right in my personal life or anyones for that matter, therefore why do you continue to implement that.

Why should everyone have the same view on sex as you? Why not get along, keep you beliefs to yourself and I will keep mine to myself and will never shove my belief of flying unicorns down your throat.


You don't have to live to our beliefs. And abortion is legal so stop whining about it. Do you need approval from us is that it? What do you care what we could think of you? We the christians will have our opinion and you don't need to care about it. Nobody is shoving at all any belief in here to you.



If you tell me you think abortion is wrong, then you are entitled to that but anything beyond that NA is bigotry and I have seen more people shove their opinions down others throats.

Abortion is legal in Canada but I guess you could say I like to fight for people in others ountries that result to harmful back alley abortions or taking pills, in which I think it should be legal but religion does nto allow for such.

Religion should never be allowed to be forced on one lifes, if they are none religious why should they live up to your expectations? Prop 8 would be a perfect example of what I am talking about, I was devasted about it, gay parents who needed marriage to adopt, had their children removed because "Christians" feel Gays should not marry.

How does gay marriage and abortion correlate, Ill explain that by making abortion illegal or being a force behind trying you are pushing your views on someone elses free will, you have the freedom to practice religion and them the freedom of their beliefs.

Not as much in Canada more so in the states (bible belt) alot of these religious people feel you need to live the same way and have even resulted to harmful acts. Religion should never be allowed in senate, much less any politcal organization and it is done more so than not, Canadas really not bad but I am empathetic to others or at least try to be.
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isaywhatisay
replied on February 1st, 2009
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diamondsz wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
isaywhatisay wrote:
as far as abortion goes, i am against it, unless of coarse in situations where the girl got raped, or something like that happened, but honestly heres where i stand if your grown enough to have sex, protected or not there is still a chance of getting prego, then you better be grown enough to take on your concenquences, if you cant handle baby, then why are you doing what makes a baby?
.


That is exactly the statement I have a problem with.....

You are telling me not to have sex if I can't handle the outcome, well as an Athesit I see sex as be recreational, so why mus I live up to your beliefs? If I want sex to be pro-creational, than that is my choice, like someone else said reproduction is an option not a function.

So you don't have to tolerate abortion at all or like it, I couldn't care if you don't like it but you have no right in my personal life or anyones for that matter, therefore why do you continue to implement that.

Why should everyone have the same view on sex as you? Why not get along, keep you beliefs to yourself and I will keep mine to myself and will never shove my belief of flying unicorns down your throat.


You don't have to live to our beliefs. And abortion is legal so stop whining about it. Do you need approval from us is that it? What do you care what we could think of you? We the christians will have our opinion and you don't need to care about it. Nobody is shoving at all any belief in here to you.



If you tell me you think abortion is wrong, then you are entitled to that but anything beyond that NA is bigotry and I have seen more people shove their opinions down others throats.

Abortion is legal in Canada but I guess you could say I like to fight for people in others ountries that result to harmful back alley abortions or taking pills, in which I think it should be legal but religion does nto allow for such.

Religion should never be allowed to be forced on one lifes, if they are none religious why should they live up to your expectations? Prop 8 would be a perfect example of what I am talking about, I was devasted about it, gay parents who needed marriage to adopt, had their children removed because "Christians" feel Gays should not marry.

How does gay marriage and abortion correlate, Ill explain that by making abortion illegal or being a force behind trying you are pushing your views on someone elses free will, you have the freedom to practice religion and them the freedom of their beliefs.

Not as much in Canada more so in the states (bible belt) alot of these religious people feel you need to live the same way and have even resulted to harmful acts. Religion should never be allowed in senate, much less any politcal organization and it is done more so than not, Canadas really not bad but I am empathetic to others or at least try to be.




ok first of all i wasnt shoving a religion down anyones throatholes... and thats one thing that needs to be in the clear, thats just simply something i belive....

nobody said you must be a christian or you will die and go to hell, esspecially if you get an abortion... ok so yea...

and all i stated was if your grown enough to have sex, and your not grown enough to take on your consenquences, like getting knocked uyp because you had sex, even though sex was ment for the practice of making babies.... your probably not the sharpest tool in the shed.... thats all i need to say and thank you!
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hduncan11
replied on February 5th, 2009
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Abortion from a non-religious view
I personally am a Christian, but when talking about the abortion debate, you don't need a bible to prove your point. Any and all of the circumstances go back to one question, is a fetus a human being. If you believe that it is okay to abort the child because of rape or it would be a financial strain on the mother, and if the fetus is a human, then you should end one persons life because of their parents, then that is homicide. If you believe that abortion is okay if it stops back-alley abortions then why don't we legalize robbery so that no one gets hurt during a hold up. You can apply this to any abortion debate, and you will get to the same question, is the unborn human? The answer is yes. The main differences between a fetus and a baby is size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependency. For size, are bigger people more human than smaller people? In the case of development, is a person who is 25 yrs. old more of a human than a two year old? As for environment, are babies in incubators more human than healthy babies? Can we kill them? And finally dependency. If we judged life on this, then diabetics could be killed because they depend on insulin. No the fetus is a child, and yes i am a christian, a yes I can argue my point without the bible.
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oopoopoop
replied on February 6th, 2009
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Re: Abortion from a non-religious view
hduncan11 wrote:
The main differences between a fetus and a baby is size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependency. For size, are bigger people more human than smaller people? In the case of development, is a person who is 25 yrs. old more of a human than a two year old? As for environment, are babies in incubators more human than healthy babies? Can we kill them? And finally dependency. If we judged life on this, then diabetics could be killed because they depend on insulin. No the fetus is a child, and yes i am a christian, a yes I can argue my point without the bible.


Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Degree of dependency is the only issue here -- no other category of creature has the right to be attached to a person, compromise their immune system, and suck the nutrients out of their body. None of your other examples is in any way relevant. Dependency on external support -- fine. Demanding that someone give over their body so that you can survive -- not fine.

Go donate a kidney if you are such a paragon of virtue, but get your nose out of other women's uteri.
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AyaMiyaki
replied on February 6th, 2009
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Quote:
as far as abortion goes, i am against it, unless of coarse in situations where the girl got raped, or something like that happened, but honestly heres where i stand if your grown enough to have sex, protected or not there is still a chance of getting prego, then you better be grown enough to take on your concenquences, if you cant handle baby, then why are you doing what makes a baby?


First of all, why is abortion okay if you've been raped? You're still ending an innocent life. Why does it matter how the unborn child was conceived if you're against ending that life? Think about it for a minute. You're basically saying that the woman should be punished with a pregnancy if she decided to have sex, but if she didn't then it's okay. You're not very concerned with the unborn child at all if you're okay with ending its life over something that's not its fault.

Secondly, why should a woman suffer through a pregnancy for choosing to have sex? I have two children and am drawing my line there. I do not want to be pregnant again. From your opinion, I shouldn't make love with my husband again until menopause, right? That's probably another 20 years down the road. You could tell me to use birth control, but no birth control method is 100% effective. What if I used birth control and still got pregnant? Would you allow an abortion then? And if so, please see the paragraph above as to why that's twisted. Furthermore, who are you to tell me not to make love with my husband? How did that become any of your business? If you think abortions are only performed by loose women who have no cares in the world, you're sadly mistaken.

Sex is about much more than just making babies. Yes, sperm plus egg = baby... but humans are sexual creatures. I'm sorry if you disagree, because that's true. Expecting two people in a commited relationship to abstain from showing physical love because YOU don't agree with THEIR legal right to control their bodies is ridiculous.
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