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Q: Abortion and the Bible
asked by: motherofhighspiritedones on December 16th, 2008
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Okay this is not aimed at every pro-lifer out there as some of you are not religious. But to those who are, where in the Bible does it say that abortion is a type of homicide? Where does it say it is a sin? I have read the bible through and through and it is full of stuff we would all consider "outdated" these days. Like slavery. And ways to cleanse ourselves during menstruation. And haircuts. And blood sacrifices. Why would we regard its "condemnation" of abortion with more seriousness than we regard its advice, which is far lengthier, on the best price to pay for a slave? Which, by the way, there is NOTHING in the bible that "condemns" abortion. In fact, there are only two verses that I was able to find in the bible that pertained to abortion, well actually one pertains to "purposefully" making a woman barren and miscarrying by the hands of God for infidelity. Yes, God himself causing her to abort. The first passage is from Ex. 21:22-25,
God tells us what to do if a man who is fighting knocks against a pregnant woman. If the woman dies, the principle of "life for life" is invoked and the man responsible for her death must be put to death himself. If she lives but has a miscarriage, then the death of the fetus is to be compensated for by the payment of a fine, as demanded by the woman's husband. In this passage itself, it shows that God deems the woman's life more valuable than that of the fetus. Life for a life is invoked if the woman is killed. If the woman is okay, but the fetus dies, the "brawler" is to pay whatever fine deemed appropriate by the husband.
Now for the next passage: In Num. 5:11-31, it states that if a man suspects his wife has been unfaithful, he is to bring her to a priest. This priest will perform "the wife's test". He tells her to drink a potion, if she has been faithful, then nothing will happen. If she has been unfaithful, her abdomen will swell and her thigh will rot. Throughout the times, this has always been translated as to making the woman barren and if at the time she was pregnant, causing miscarriage. Hmm, that God himself would cause a woman to abort? Makes you think.
I guess my point is, nothing in the Bible is concrete about abortion. NOTHING. A lot of people will argue that it says that homicide is a sin and abortion is homicide, but where exactly does it say in the Bible that abortion is homicide? Where? What passage? What scripture? From what I read, it says that a woman's life is worth more than that of a fetus, that God himself will cause you to abort if you have been unfaithful...so why can a woman not choose for herself to abort for her own reasons? Is it because we are meant to "bear the fruit of the loins"? That is so incredibly outdated. That would be like saying it is still okay to keep slaves because the bible says it is. My point is, there is nothing in the Bible that says abortion is homicide, that it is a sin, so stop using that excuse as a crutch. Abortion is more moral than religious, and since morals vary, then it CANNOT be WRONG, nor can it be RIGHT. It is up to each individual themselves to decide whether it is wrong or right to them and if it is wrong to them, the solution is simple: don't have one.
I'm wondering how many of the religious type prolifers will actually be able to come up with a scripture/passage that says that abortion is wrong...I don't think many will. I think a lot will use the ol' smokescreen method, stating that children are our greatest blessing. While that may be true, a child is just that, a child. The discussion here is not a child...it is an UNBORN CHILD, a fetus, embryo, zygote, blastocyst, fertilized egg, whatever. I want to see proof that God condemns those who choose abortion to hell. I want to see proof that abortion is a sin. I don't want to hear that abortion is homicide. Who says that? Where does the bible say that? You say it. Nowhere in the bible is abortion mentioned as a deadly sin, as a sin at all. Nowhere in the bible is abortion mentioned, except for the passages I wrote. I can think of a couple more where it might be mentioned, but those ones fall in the same lines as the ones above, that the woman trumps the fetus and that if the woman is unfaithful, God himself will cause her to abort/miscarry.
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Users who thank motherofhighspiritedones for this post: Lilly Ivy  aochriss 
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nightangel73
replied on December 17th, 2008
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We have discussed this so many times..want to hear everything again??
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motherofhighspiritedones
replied on December 18th, 2008
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Nope, not from you. You have never exclusively pointed out where it says in the bible that abortion is homicide or a sin. But thanks for the offer Smile
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diamondsz
replied on December 27th, 2008
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Nowhere in the bible does it specify that abortion is wrong, it does talk about life being sacred but in certain pretenses/sitiuations..

Exodus 21:22 refers to a mother having more value then her pregnancy "or fruit."

Actually according to religion "christianity" woman don't have souls, they were made to (compliment men) so we won't be going to heaven or hell.

According to geneis, we were created by removing a piece of adams rib, although. without a soul that was. So we are created by a male, from a male, we have no souls as woman, there we cannot go to heaven, nor can we commit sins.

No offence but I am quite often repulsed by the religion...........

According to Socrates its always been a power trip, since immortality was never obtainable, we would seek it through re-generation.

"Enough said:
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nightangel73
replied on December 28th, 2008
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motherofhighspiritedones wrote:
Nope, not from you. You have never exclusively pointed out where it says in the bible that abortion is homicide or a sin. But thanks for the offer Smile


Nothing you can do when someone is blind to the thruth.

Now in this time when we remember Jesus in Christmas, he was born to bring hope, that is for people to love one another and not kill one another.
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oopoopoop
replied on December 28th, 2008
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nightangel73 wrote:
motherofhighspiritedones wrote:
Nope, not from you. You have never exclusively pointed out where it says in the bible that abortion is homicide or a sin. But thanks for the offer Smile


Nothing you can do when someone is blind to the thruth.

Now in this time when we remember Jesus in Christmas, he was born to bring hope, that is for people to love one another and not kill one another.


Nope, Christmas has zero to do with your biblical stories! It has to do with lights and food and lots of chocolate and presents! Christmas isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible, as any real christian can tell you. All the good bits of pagan tradition were simply coopted by the priests to try to get people on board.

And your Pope is such a great one for peace, eh? I mean, soooooo tolerant and welcoming!

And christmas has nothing to do with abortion -- although, if I'd been the virgin mary, it might have done.
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diamondsz
replied on December 28th, 2008
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nightangel73 wrote:
motherofhighspiritedones wrote:
Nope, not from you. You have never exclusively pointed out where it says in the bible that abortion is homicide or a sin. But thanks for the offer Smile


Nothing you can do when someone is blind to the thruth.

Now in this time when we remember Jesus in Christmas, he was born to bring hope, that is for people to love one another and not kill one another.


Christmas is actually derived from two other religions, one is Mithraism and paganism, who believed in the winter soltice, although nowadays, christmas can have many meanings depending on the person, for me it is being with family and free food.

Christmas has never had any religious meaning to me...
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WhiteHairs
replied on December 28th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
motherofhighspiritedones wrote:
Okay this is not aimed at every pro-lifer out there as some of you are not religious. But to those who are, where in the Bible does it say that abortion is a type of homicide? Where does it say it is a sin? I have read the bible through and through and it is full of stuff we would all consider "outdated" these days. Like slavery. And ways to cleanse ourselves during menstruation. And haircuts. And blood sacrifices. Why would we regard its "condemnation" of abortion with more seriousness than we regard its advice, which is far lengthier, on the best price to pay for a slave? Which, by the way, there is NOTHING in the bible that "condemns" abortion. In fact, there are only two verses that I was able to find in the bible that pertained to abortion, well actually one pertains to "purposefully" making a woman barren and miscarrying by the hands of God for infidelity. Yes, God himself causing her to abort. The first passage is from Ex. 21:22-25,
God tells us what to do if a man who is fighting knocks against a pregnant woman. If the woman dies, the principle of "life for life" is invoked and the man responsible for her death must be put to death himself. If she lives but has a miscarriage, then the death of the fetus is to be compensated for by the payment of a fine, as demanded by the woman's husband. In this passage itself, it shows that God deems the woman's life more valuable than that of the fetus. Life for a life is invoked if the woman is killed. If the woman is okay, but the fetus dies, the "brawler" is to pay whatever fine deemed appropriate by the husband.
Now for the next passage: In Num. 5:11-31, it states that if a man suspects his wife has been unfaithful, he is to bring her to a priest. This priest will perform "the wife's test". He tells her to drink a potion, if she has been faithful, then nothing will happen. If she has been unfaithful, her abdomen will swell and her thigh will rot. Throughout the times, this has always been translated as to making the woman barren and if at the time she was pregnant, causing miscarriage. Hmm, that God himself would cause a woman to abort? Makes you think.
I guess my point is, nothing in the Bible is concrete about abortion. NOTHING. A lot of people will argue that it says that homicide is a sin and abortion is homicide, but where exactly does it say in the Bible that abortion is homicide? Where? What passage? What scripture? From what I read, it says that a woman's life is worth more than that of a fetus, that God himself will cause you to abort if you have been unfaithful...so why can a woman not choose for herself to abort for her own reasons? Is it because we are meant to "bear the fruit of the loins"? That is so incredibly outdated. That would be like saying it is still okay to keep slaves because the bible says it is. My point is, there is nothing in the Bible that says abortion is homicide, that it is a sin, so stop using that excuse as a crutch. Abortion is more moral than religious, and since morals vary, then it CANNOT be WRONG, nor can it be RIGHT. It is up to each individual themselves to decide whether it is wrong or right to them and if it is wrong to them, the solution is simple: don't have one.
I'm wondering how many of the religious type prolifers will actually be able to come up with a scripture/passage that says that abortion is wrong...I don't think many will. I think a lot will use the ol' smokescreen method, stating that children are our greatest blessing. While that may be true, a child is just that, a child. The discussion here is not a child...it is an UNBORN CHILD, a fetus, embryo, zygote, blastocyst, fertilized egg, whatever. I want to see proof that God condemns those who choose abortion to hell. I want to see proof that abortion is a sin. I don't want to hear that abortion is homicide. Who says that? Where does the bible say that? You say it. Nowhere in the bible is abortion mentioned as a deadly sin, as a sin at all. Nowhere in the bible is abortion mentioned, except for the passages I wrote. I can think of a couple more where it might be mentioned, but those ones fall in the same lines as the ones above, that the woman trumps the fetus and that if the woman is unfaithful, God himself will cause her to abort/miscarry.
abortion and the bible is ridiculous. just like cars and the bible, or computers and the bible, or submarines and the bible, or canadians and the bible. those things and many other things did not exist when the bible was written. not to mention the fact that most of the people on this planet are of religions other than the ones that use the "bible" whatever version of that you might be refering to. modern medicine and abortion is a fairly recent phenomenon. your use of the technical terms for levels of development of a humans continuous lifespan to single out some levels of development as being less significant than other levels of human development is very distubing because that contradicts the basic principles of human rights. perhaps you are citizen of some third world country that does not believe in human rights. but being the citizen of a modern society that accepts human rights but does not protect them is probably just as bad.
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diamondsz
replied on December 28th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
phlem wrote:
modern medicine and abortion is a fairly recent phenomenon. your use of the technical terms for levels of development of a humans continuous lifespan to single out some levels of development as being less significant than other levels of human development is very distubing because that contradicts the basic principles of human rights. .


Modern medicine, views of a fetus being less significant were seen in B.C. before the birth of christ, some of it is from philosophy, Plato and socrates and abortion was obtained hundred/thousands of years ago (through poison.)

According to christianity, if a married woman was adulterous, she would be given poison to kill her unborn health questions.
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WhiteHairs
replied on December 28th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
diamondsz wrote:
phlem wrote:
modern medicine and abortion is a fairly recent phenomenon. your use of the technical terms for levels of development of a humans continuous lifespan to single out some levels of development as being less significant than other levels of human development is very distubing because that contradicts the basic principles of human rights. .


Modern medicine, views of a fetus being less significant were seen in B.C. before the birth of christ, some of it is from philosophy, Plato and socrates and abortion was obtained hundred/thousands of years ago (through poison.)

According to christianity, if a married woman was adulterous, she would be given poison to kill her unborn health questions.
where did you get the notion that modern medicine uses poison to abort babies. i admit i am no expert on what goes on in abortion clinics, but i am fairly sure that poison is not the method that is used for killing the babies. and if it is poison that is used to kill the babies with abortion. does that not force the species to become resilient to that poison. since only the babies that suvive the attempts to kill them with poison will be born to have a chance at continueing their life to puberty and the possibility of procreation. you don't get golden retrievers by random chance now do you?
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motherofhighspiritedones
replied on December 29th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
phlem wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
phlem wrote:
modern medicine and abortion is a fairly recent phenomenon. your use of the technical terms for levels of development of a humans continuous lifespan to single out some levels of development as being less significant than other levels of human development is very distubing because that contradicts the basic principles of human rights. .


Modern medicine, views of a fetus being less significant were seen in B.C. before the birth of christ, some of it is from philosophy, Plato and socrates and abortion was obtained hundred/thousands of years ago (through poison.)

Diamondz stated that the views of fetuses being less signifigant were seen in B.C. It even says in the bible that poison is used (and this method of abortion is performed believe it or not, by a PRIEST)if a woman is found to be pregnant via adultery.
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WhiteHairs
replied on December 29th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
motherofhighspiritedones wrote:
phlem wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
phlem wrote:
modern medicine and abortion is a fairly recent phenomenon. your use of the technical terms for levels of development of a humans continuous lifespan to single out some levels of development as being less significant than other levels of human development is very distubing because that contradicts the basic principles of human rights. .


Modern medicine, views of a fetus being less significant were seen in B.C. before the birth of christ, some of it is from philosophy, Plato and socrates and abortion was obtained hundred/thousands of years ago (through poison.)

According to christianity, if a married woman was adulterous, she would be given poison to kill her unborn health questions.
where did you get the notion that modern medicine uses poison to abort babies. i admit i am no expert on what goes on in abortion clinics, but i am fairly sure that poison is not the method that is used for killing the babies. and if it is poison that is used to kill the babies with abortion. does that not force the species to become resilient to that poison. since only the babies that suvive the attempts to kill them with poison will be born to have a chance at continueing their life to puberty and the possibility of procreation. you don't get golden retrievers by random chance now do you?
Can you honestly NOT read? Honestly? Seriously, LEARN TO READ. Diamondz stated that the views of fetuses being less signifigant were seen in B.C. It even says in the bible that poison is used (and this method of abortion is performed believe it or not, by a PRIEST)if a woman is found to be pregnant via adultery. Learn to read and stop twisting words around. It only makes you look more ignorant and mentally disturbed.
so you are defending the modern technology of abortion by pointing out the morals of primitive superstitious and barbaric cultures as being the morals that modern civilitions should practice? or are you suggesting that modern societies are still primitive superstitious and barbaric and use modern technologies to those ends. while giving off the facade pretense and illusion of being civilized.
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diamondsz
replied on December 29th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
phlem wrote:
[]so you are defending the modern technology of abortion by pointing out the morals of primitive superstitious and barbaric cultures as being the morals that modern civilitions should practice? or are you suggesting that modern societies are still primitive superstitious and barbaric and use modern technologies to those ends. while giving off the facade pretense and illusion of being civilized.


No you are still living in a primitive world, you have been disillusioned because without religion or some odd superstition, please tell me why abortion is wrong? i would like to know how another persons body affects you as a person, personally if you wanted to keep your pregnancy, Im all good with that, you do what you want to do.
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WhiteHairs
replied on December 29th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
diamondsz wrote:
phlem wrote:
[]so you are defending the modern technology of abortion by pointing out the morals of primitive superstitious and barbaric cultures as being the morals that modern civilitions should practice? or are you suggesting that modern societies are still primitive superstitious and barbaric and use modern technologies to those ends. while giving off the facade pretense and illusion of being civilized.


No you are still living in a primitive world, you have been disillusioned because without religion or some odd superstition, please tell me why abortion is wrong? i would like to know how another persons body affects you as a person, personally if you wanted to keep your pregnancy, Im all good with that, you do what you want to do.
no i don't. i do what i should do, as boring as that might be, so i can sleep at night with a clear consience. and doing what i should does not include killing people with abortions or advocating killing people with abortions.
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motherofhighspiritedones
replied on December 30th, 2008
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Well then, if that is what YOU CHOOSE, good on you. But you have not answered Diamondz...HOW DOES A PERSON, totally UNRELATED to YOU or YOUR BODY...how does THEIR CHOICE TO ABORT OR NOT TO AFFECT YOU OR THE WAY YOU LIVE?
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motherofhighspiritedones
replied on December 30th, 2008
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Re: Abortion and the Bible
phlem wrote:
motherofhighspiritedones wrote:
phlem wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
phlem wrote:
modern medicine and abortion is a fairly recent phenomenon. your use of the technical terms for levels of development of a humans continuous lifespan to single out some levels of development as being less significant than other levels of human development is very distubing because that contradicts the basic principles of human rights. .


Modern medicine, views of a fetus being less significant were seen in B.C. before the birth of christ, some of it is from philosophy, Plato and socrates and abortion was obtained hundred/thousands of years ago (through poison.)

According to christianity, if a married woman was adulterous, she would be given poison to kill her unborn health questions.
where did you get the notion that modern medicine uses poison to abort babies. i admit i am no expert on what goes on in abortion clinics, but i am fairly sure that poison is not the method that is used for killing the babies. and if it is poison that is used to kill the babies with abortion. does that not force the species to become resilient to that poison. since only the babies that suvive the attempts to kill them with poison will be born to have a chance at continueing their life to puberty and the possibility of procreation. you don't get golden retrievers by random chance now do you?
Can you honestly NOT read? Honestly? Seriously, LEARN TO READ. Diamondz stated that the views of fetuses being less signifigant were seen in B.C. It even says in the bible that poison is used (and this method of abortion is performed believe it or not, by a PRIEST)if a woman is found to be pregnant via adultery. Learn to read and stop twisting words around. It only makes you look more ignorant and mentally disturbed.
so you are defending the modern technology of abortion by pointing out the morals of primitive superstitious and barbaric cultures as being the morals that modern civilitions should practice? or are you suggesting that modern societies are still primitive superstitious and barbaric and use modern technologies to those ends. while giving off the facade pretense and illusion of being civilized.
That makes NO sense at all. How is me stating that abortion has been around FOREVER, when you keep INSISTING that it is modern, defending a MODERN technology. It has been around forever and regardless of what YOU say, it will continue to be around. You need to quit, seriously. If you are going to debate, do it properly...or at least learn to read better. And quit twisting others' words.
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oopoopoop
replied on December 30th, 2008
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(The world must be a very confusing place for our little troll here -- I wonder how it functions in society? Does it write letters to the editor in green crayon?)

Note to lurking loons (by which I mean waterfowl, not those with a mental impairment, of course, as I don't wish to offend anyone!) -- abortion is a good thing! It removes the unwanted from inside a thinking, breathing human! Civilisation has been vastly improved through the availability of sage and effective termination of unwanted pregnancies.

You want to make a difference -- stop unwanted pregnancies by helping to educate young people. And if you are male and don't like abortion, then do not under any circumstances have sex -- or have a major slash-burn-shred vasectomy.
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WhiteHairs
replied on December 30th, 2008
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oopoopoop wrote:
(The world must be a very confusing place for our little troll here -- I wonder how it functions in society? Does it write letters to the editor in green crayon?)

Note to lurking loons (by which I mean waterfowl, not those with a mental impairment, of course, as I don't wish to offend anyone!) -- abortion is a good thing! It removes the unwanted from inside a thinking, breathing human! Civilisation has been vastly improved through the availability of sage and effective termination of unwanted pregnancies.

You want to make a difference -- stop unwanted pregnancies by helping to educate young people. And if you are male and don't like abortion, then do not under any circumstances have sex -- or have a major slash-burn-shred vasectomy.
but governments destroy wanted children with abortion. or are you suggesting that chinese are something other than thinking, breathing humans? isn't that something of a racial slur? how does a govenmental policy of destroying offspring with abortion vastly improve civilization? how does any policy of destroying offspring with abortion vastly improve society? doesn't your premise need an explanation? the nazi party of 20th century germany had a similar policy of mandatory sterilization of jews. how did that vastly improve society? was that a vast improvement of north carolinas' policy of sterilzing the disabled? was the extermination of the jews a "good thing" because it removed the unwanted from an intelligent society?
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oopoopoop
replied on December 30th, 2008
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Choice is the point, duh! Neither forced abortion, nor forced gestation. Is that too complicated for you?
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WhiteHairs
replied on December 30th, 2008
Experienced User
but your not making any sense because choice is a mental process that can only be controlled by the person doing the thinking. isn't this suppose to be an abortion debate? and not a platform for your tyrannical decrees and illogic?
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