And sweetheart for the record your taxes, my taxes, our taxes, are paying for poverty born children. Children born because protection wasnt sought. The freedom of sex if so frivolous in our society. My whole statement was no one is held accountable. Meaning both male and female. You have a voice and are expressing it freely as your constitutional rights declare you to. You have a voice because you were born. I assure you life is worthwhile. Before my DNA is questioned I have 3 offspring. My oldest is in law, my second medical school (nurse anesthetist), and my third in education. I think it is shameful that you even have remarked that comment. This whole forum is for the good of individuals that need guidance and support. I kindly remind you of that.

I'll start by saying it's accept, not except. Just letting you know.



Obviously. It's not a pig fetus. The debate is over whether it's a human being, which is somewhat different. Feel free to substitute human being with person.



We've already established that it IS human. I'll assume that you mean "if it is a person". Is the woman providing the life support for the fetus? Is her body controlling whether the fetus receives oxygen and nutrients? Is the woman the one who must risk her life and health to birth and deliver the fetus into this world? She is? Then yes, she has the right to choose to end the pregnancy.



It doesn't matter what "people" think. It matters what the woman thinks and decides. It's her body and life on the line.



Read above.



I believed as you did when I was 18. Time and experience has broadened my opinions and tolerance of others.



Social justice is not putting shackles on a woman because she has something living in her uterus.



Wrong is subjective. From my shoes, you're on the wrong side.



What does racism have to do with abortion? What sorts of things are you saying when you debate against people?



You do realize you said "fight to the death" and "pro ALL LIFE" in the same paragraph, right? Fight who to the death, exactly? Because those terrorist tactics you mentioned are doing exactly that - fighting to the death and shooting people in churches.

The thing you don't seem to realize is that you are entitled to your opinion and none of us will care. You can believe all day long, and sing from the rafters, that abortion is wrong. It's not a pleasant thing, thinking of an unborn child's life coming to an end. Certainly never have one if you're ever in the unfortunate position of having to choose. I don't think anyone here likes abortion. But if you believe that a woman's right to choose should be taken away based on YOUR beliefs and opinions, you have just stepped over the line. You know, the one that clearly says "my reproductive rights are none of your business". Because, sweetie? A great debater you may be, but ME you are not. Your opinion about pregnancy options is YOUR opinion and has nothing to do with me.

If you want to change the world, you should do some research into why women have abortions. What their situation is. Whether they were using birth control, could afford birth control, were turned away when they asked for surgical sterilization, whether they knew where pregnancy comes from and where they could go to for help if they truly wanted theirs. Work to solve these issues along with others and we may see a reduction in abortions.

Did you know that many people who claim to be pro-life are also of the opinion that sex ed shouldn't be taught in schools? That welfare programs (that help low income families) and Planned Parenthood (which offers low cost and free birth control) should be reduced and/or stopped altogether? Have you spoken to someone who has given their child up for adoption or volunteered for an agency that assists in doing so? Have you seen the pain a woman goes through when she hands over her own flesh and blood to another person to raise?

How judgmental some pro-lifers can be. How simple they make this world and these choices out to be. "Don't want to get pregnant? Don't have sex." Yeah, you first. "Use birth control!" Care to pay for it for me? It's either BC or paying my rent. "Give the baby up for adoption." Yeah, because that's just a skip through the rain isn't it? "Get your tubes tied." Do you know how many women are turned away by doctors too scared of being sued for doing this procedure?

Open your eyes and truly see this world for what it is. Experience and age may very well change your opinion of this topic.

Seems you're in the wrong forum then!

And may I kindly remind you, your royal highness of infinite worth, that this is a DEBATE forum. It has nothing to do with providing guidance and support. If you want some support for your decision to reproduce, you have come to the wrong place.

Yes, it is a human fetus.




Yes. If it's in her body and she doesn't want it there, it's perfectly okay to remove it.




Agreed. I'm sorry that you've chosen the wrong side.

oopoopoop, sweetheart the subject topic is what's on the table for debate. This forum however is not. Someone did not agree with you so they should not reproduce? When you lash out questioning one's DNA as to reproducing, you crossed the line. You want to debate? Debate your opinion without belittling. Go tit for tat on the subject and one's expressed opinion. We are debating abortion not an individual's character. It is such a divine knowledge that we are all of infinite worth! Even you!

"Okay, it seems few like to argue just to get a rouse! Let me explain the human female anatomy compared to a farm animal. First of all a hen can lay an egg daily. A hen needs a rooster only to hatch a chicken. Same as the human female anatomy. Unlike the hen a female will only release an egg once a month. Sometimes 2 will be released, hence fraternal twins. The female anatomy can only reproduce will the help from the male anatomy."

WOW if this isn't splitting hairs then I don't know what is.

The whole abortion debate is as simple as this: if you don't like abortion, then don't have one. Case closed.

breck08, dearheart my little pony poppet! What the heck are you talking about? Poopsie poo, diddums, did I hurt your widdle feewings?

Sheesh, get a room, you two.

But in the case of rape, the unborn is innocent too...it did not ask to be conceived...and in the case of sepsis, the unborn did not (at least intentionally, if it had to do with uterine infection) cause the sepsis...why should it be killed? What about if the unborn had a severe birth defect, a defect incompatible with life? Then, I guess, in your opinion, it would be okay to abort as well...this proves that most of the prolifers are not about the fetus at all...they are more about the circumstances in which the woman conceived. Either way, whether you abort for so-called social reasons (birth control failure, cannot afford a child at this moment, never want children, cannot go through with adoption because of the emotional impacts)or whether you abort for medical reasons, it still kills a potential born human.
As to the OP's questions: Yes, the fetus is human, it is a human fetus. Is it right for a woman to kill her fetus? It may not be right, but it is still necessary. It could be considered the lesser of evils if there were other circumstances (child abuse, being placed in the foster system and never adopted because it is not a perfect baby...birth defects/etc). No one is saying that a fetus is not human.
But personhood and sentience is another matter entirely. For example, my heart is a human heart. But it is not a person, it cannot think nor feel emotions, nor can it exist independently from the rest of my body. A fetus is a human fetus, it is NOT a person yet. You gain personhood and all the legal rights that go along with it at birth. For example, I could miscarry a 6 week pregnancy...it will not receive a birth or death certificate, nor a social security card. I cannot take out life insurance for a fetus.
As to when a fetus becomes sentient, that in itself is still debatable. Some scientific studies show a fetus can sense pain at around 19-20 weeks. Other studies put the emotional sentience and pain awareness later, at around 24-26 weeks. I personally think it is at around 22 weeks, because I had a preemie born at 23 weeks and a few days gestation. All of his systems, including his sense of touch and pain were underdeveloped. There were times that I could not hold him, as touch would overstimulate his developing systems, and at the same time, the doctor would be poking the IO line into his leg, and he would not react at all. For those who do not know what an IO line is, it is an intraosseus line, an IV put directly into a bone, into the bone marrow. It is a very painful procedure for adults and children; oftentimes, they are either numbed or put under anesthesia for the procedure. My son, when his IO line was not put under anesthesia nor was he numbed as his system was too fragile at the time for any CNS depressants.
Those systems that make a person aware, make a person feel pain, etc, are there at 23 weeks, but they are still VERY underdeveloped. But since most abortions are done at 12 weeks or less, I do not think awareness or sentience is an issue. It doesn't change the fact that a human fetus is being aborted, but to call a late embryo or early development fetus a person is a totally different thing.

OMG, stupid editor took out my indentations again...garrrr! Sorry Darkmoon!

LOL, no worries, Mother. I'm not going to shake my finger at anyone over a forum glitch.